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Stonepounder

(4,033 posts)
Wed Mar 28, 2018, 12:48 AM Mar 2018

Citizenship question on census form.

If you haven't heard, Trump and Co. have overruled everyone and is adding a question to the 2020 Census form asking if you are a US Citizen Y/N.

If the question survives all the legal challenges and actually does appear, I have decided that I will simply leave it blank and refuse to answer. If a census taker challenges me about it I will invoke my 5th Amendment right and refuse to answer on the grounds that it might tend to incriminate me.

(Of course the fact that I have voted in every election available to me for 50 years probably means that a) I'm a citizen, or b) I am really, really, good (for getting by with it for 50 years) at fraudulent voter registration and, at the same time, really, really bad (for only voting once in each election) at fraudulent voter registration.)

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Citizenship question on census form. (Original Post) Stonepounder Mar 2018 OP
Does leaving one question blank invalidate your data? ProudLib72 Mar 2018 #1
Census data cannot be linked to names for a number o decades. Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #3
72 years before the census data is released csziggy Mar 2018 #8
Thanks. Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #9
Given who is in charge of using the census data, Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #2
I do not follow your reasoning. JayhawkSD Mar 2018 #4
My reasoning: Stonepounder Mar 2018 #7
The census doesn't ask political affiliation. Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #10
However: Stonepounder Mar 2018 #11
That's kind of teh point I"m making. Ms. Toad Mar 2018 #12
The census already asks you where you were born; if the answer is "In the US" it's redundant Spider Jerusalem Mar 2018 #5
I never thought of that. Good point. BigmanPigman Mar 2018 #6
My brother wasn't born in the US but is a US citizen. It certainly gives a smaller percentage though OnDoutside Mar 2018 #13

ProudLib72

(17,984 posts)
1. Does leaving one question blank invalidate your data?
Wed Mar 28, 2018, 12:57 AM
Mar 2018

I have to wonder what happens if everything else on the list checks out except that single question. Could they actually use it to remove someone from the voter roll? Of course, this is all speculation and I don't think it will survive in the courts.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
3. Census data cannot be linked to names for a number o decades.
Wed Mar 28, 2018, 01:05 AM
Mar 2018

Census workers are instructed to find out as much information as they can and complete/correct the information for you if you refuse to provide it.

For example, the year I worked the census many LGBT married couples marked married. When we encountered same sex heads of household who had marked the married box, we were instructed to change "married" to domestic partner (or whatever the "we refuse to recognize your marriage" designation was.)

There will be a validation process this year and, if there is a vocal movement to refuse to answer, I'm sure there will be directions as to how to complete that filed.

csziggy

(34,120 posts)
8. 72 years before the census data is released
Wed Mar 28, 2018, 12:21 PM
Mar 2018

Right now the most recent US Census data that is available is the 1940 census which was released in 2012.

State census have different rules - the 1945 Florida census has been available for about ten years I think, but I'm not sure. A 1946 report on the 1945 Florida census does not include individual's information, just aggregate data (https://palmm.digital.flvc.org/islandora/object/ucf%3A9020#page/cover/mode/2up).

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
2. Given who is in charge of using the census data,
Wed Mar 28, 2018, 12:58 AM
Mar 2018

I don't think refusing to answer is helpful.

Republicans will answer; progressives will not. Areas which are heavily Republican will treat non-answers as non-citizens and (to the extent they can - legally or not - will allocate more of whatever is being allocated on the basis of citizenship (block grants for Medicaid, food stamps, etc., legislative seats, etc.)

 

JayhawkSD

(3,163 posts)
4. I do not follow your reasoning.
Wed Mar 28, 2018, 02:04 AM
Mar 2018

You will refuse to answer based on the claim that answering might tend to incriminate you?

Surely you are not seriously implying that you have been voting on a false registration for fifty years. The idea is absurd, and such a person would not even hint publicly that he had been doing such a thing.

So you will refuse to answer based on the claim that answering that you are a citizen might tend to incriminate you?

Are you saying that being a citizen of the United States makes you a criminal?

Stonepounder

(4,033 posts)
7. My reasoning:
Wed Mar 28, 2018, 12:11 PM
Mar 2018

Contrary to popular thinking, 'taking the fifth' does NOT imply that you are guilty of something. It implies that you might be guilty or you might not be.

For example, a bank was robbed. The investigators have narrowed the perp down to you or your identical twin. When asked 'Did you rob that bank?", you both take the fifth.

By refusing to answer the citizenship question I am simply exercising my constitutional right to not answer a question that 'might incriminate me'.

And yes, if a small number of people choose that route, the GOP would have a field day. But how about if 1-200,000,000 people do the same? How about if every Democrat refuses to answer. Can you imagine how much it would cost to send field workers to every household that left that question blank and refused to answer. Do you really think that the GOP could then assert that there simply were not Democrats left in the US?

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
10. The census doesn't ask political affiliation.
Wed Mar 28, 2018, 01:17 PM
Mar 2018

They'd just rub their hands in glee at how much taxpayer money they could send to heavily Republican jurisdictions, where all the citizens live, and how much they could save by not sending funding to all those Democratic states - since there are a lot of restrictions based on citizenship.

Not to mention, that I'd much rather have my tax dollars fund safety nets than paying census workers to go door-to-door.

Stonepounder

(4,033 posts)
11. However:
Wed Mar 28, 2018, 01:53 PM
Mar 2018

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Latest absurd freak out is over <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/census2020?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#census2020</a> citizenship question. In every nation citizenship matters, so shouldn’t we know how many we have? And districts apportioned based on # of people not here legally dilutes the political representation of citizens & legal residents.</p>— Marco Rubio (@marcorubio) <a href="


?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 28, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
12. That's kind of teh point I"m making.
Wed Mar 28, 2018, 02:53 PM
Mar 2018

If progressives, in large numbers, refuse to answer the question, the people currently in power will treat them as if they are non-citizens - and will diminish money, voting power, etc. to those districts with high non-citizen populations to the extent they can legally (perhaps legally after changing the laws) get away with it

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