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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsA reminder...in 1968, just before the Mexico City Olympics...
the Mexican government slaughtered between 33 and 300 students in "the Zocalo", a plaza in downtown Mexico City. Those students were demonstrating for badly-needed social transformation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tlatelolco_massacre
They were killed, in significant measure, because the Mexican government didn't want the world to see young protestors in the streets during the Games.
They were innocent victims as well.
Their lives were of equal value of those who died at Munich.
Their deaths were just as tied to the Games as were the innocent victims of Munich.
Yet we've never heard demands that ANY Olympic ceremony include a moment of silence for them...
Terrorism is terrorism...even when it wears a uniform.
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CaliforniaPeggy
(149,754 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)n/t.
RedStateLiberal
(1,374 posts)I didn't even know that happened. Before my time.
Thank you for the post and I agree, if they're going to give tributes to those who've died in relation to the Olympics then they should include all victims.
JI7
(89,281 posts)it's like complaining about memorials and tributes to colorado theater victims because others shot and killed in other shootings weren't getting the same .
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)the only reason the "moment of silence" issue got brought up again was to create a bogus "litmus test" issue...as if you were an antisemite if you DIDN'T demand the additional commemoration.
The victims at the Zocalo were killed because the Mexican government didn't want the world to see protest during the Games...their deaths were just as tied to the games as the victims of Munich.
Response to Ken Burch (Reply #8)
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Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)as did the world.
It's just that the killing of the Mexican kids was equally wrong...the lives of both groups of innocent people were of equal value.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Would not quite agree with you with the comparison that is.
And wiki has wrong numbers by zeroes...the guerra Sucia, which ended ten years later, we had thousands go missing. There have been calls to bring echeverria to trial for decades now.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)You're right that the death rate was probably much much higher, with evidence suppressed by the Mexican government.
Yet a major reason for the killings was to crush the student movement...a movement that had actual revolutionary potential...BEFORE the Games began.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)why the calls to try Echeverria are geting higher. That said, current drug on wars, make that look like a pikers dream.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)He's just as much a terrorist as anybody in Black September.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)
And quite honestly, there has been ONE good thing that came out of all that... the country did take it's sweet time, but after that era of terror, and it was... well... it has evolved.
But going to the current times, the current war on drugs will lead to calls for trials for Calderon too... I am willing to bet on that.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)I hate to think what that will mean.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)just like the GOP is not your father's GOP.
Actually, believe it or not, they are far less authoritarian than they used to be.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)between the GOP of today and my father's GOP(actually, my father may have been a Republican at one point, although he wasn't naturally a political person or a right-wing extremist and would, indeed, have no use for the people in today's GOP).
a la izquierda
(11,802 posts)Also gave Mexico Lazaro Cardenas (though the name changed). As I'm sure you know, but most Americans probably don't, the PRI was an umbrella party until 1988. One could be a leftist, yet a member of the PRI.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)And yes, the PRI was an "umbrella party" comprising both right and left(strongly resembling the pre-1975 Peronist Party in Argentina in that respect)but always had a strongly authoritarian and anti-democratic internal political culture.
Nowadays, the PRI are just another group of neoliberal toadies-the differences between them and the PAN are meaningless(as demonstrated by the fact that Vicente Fox, the first PAN president-the "Mexican Reagan", as some of us called him) endorsed the PRI presidential candidate over his own party's nominee.
a la izquierda
(11,802 posts)but WHEN did he form that party ? That's the key. He formed it in protest of the '88 election.
As I imagine you know, Mexican political history is vastly different from our own. For almost a century, it was really a Democracy in Name Only (since the writing of the 1857 constitution, I'd suggest). Voting as a bloc isn't really democratic, is it?
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Tommie Smith and John Carlos, were both from San Jose State, an athletics (track and field) powerhouse at the time. They are honored with a statue on the paradoxically politically silent campus.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)The MSM lost their collective minds over it. I laughed my ass off.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Some of us even knew about the Mexico City massacre, too. But, the US media barely mentioned it.
Do you have to ask why it scrubbed from the news?
Enough of a disconnect.
Students weren't athletes. The students were there to protest the government. The athletes were there at the Olympics' invitation, to participate.
One event happened before the games. The other happened during the games.
The students were killed, in part, to provide the "proper" backdrop to the Games. Only in part. They weren't killed simply because they were students, and they were killed by their own government. The athletes were killed specifically because of the Games, to leverage off the Games' publicity, and were killed specifically because they were Jewish Israelis while under the protection of the IOC.
And, finally, there's still a double standard. A Greek makes a racist comment before the Games and she's declared a persona non grata--granted, by the Greek government because she supports a neo-fascist party at home. Still, it created a ruckus. Such racist thinking is contrary to the Olympic spirit.
Then, a day later, Lebanese judo athletes had to train in the same gym as Israelis. They insisted that a partition be put up so that they wouldn't have to even see the Israelis, much less interact with them. The ever vigilant Olympics officials hastily complied with the Lebanese athletes' most courteous and broad-minded request. This is apparently in keeping with the Olympic spirit. (Imagine if the Greek athlete was training next to African athletes and demanded that a partition be put up so that she would't be offended by seeing black Africans.)
Meanwhile, the Palestinians were declaring that the mere request to have a moment of silence was a racist act by the Israelis.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Response to Ken Burch (Original post)
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Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)I think it's wrong to kill innocent people. All innocent lives are of equal value. It's as wrong to kill Israelis as anybody else...it's not MORE wrong to kill Israelis(and the issue was that they were Israelis, not that they were Jews...nobody attacked Jewish athletes from any other country's Olympic teams) than to kill anybody else.
demosincebirth
(12,549 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)or even to antisemitism.
All I'm saying is that you don't privilege one group of innocent victims over another.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Some ethnic groups are just more valuable than others.
But of course,that's been acceptable on DU for some time. How does the ranking go?
Roma < "Other" < Native Americans < Arabs < Latinos < Blacks < Jews < Asians < Whites
Something like that.
demosincebirth
(12,549 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Response to Ken Burch (Original post)
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Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Can I ONLY stand for equality if I privilege some innocent lives over others?
Response to Ken Burch (Reply #22)
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Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)to say that it's equally wrong to kill any innocent person.
gopiscrap
(23,766 posts)in the Olympics
lunasun
(21,646 posts)Remember 68 for the raised fists did not know about the protest attack/ terrorism
Response to Ken Burch (Original post)
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Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)I don't have to privilege the deaths of the Munich athletes over the deaths of all other innocent people just to prove I'm not an antisemitic(btw, "Jewphobic" isn't actually a word).
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts) Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Last edited Sun Jul 29, 2012, 12:59 AM - Edit history (1)
Obviously, I'm not an antisemite. I'm not even antizionist. I'm just trying to be even-handed on the I/P issue. That's the opposite of any type of bigotry.
(on edit)
OK, you're just lying about me there.
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)Of course you are. 
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)I'm not an antisemite.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)While some do seem to value Jewish lives over others, we also cannot forget why people targeted those kids.
Yes, Tel Aviv acts sometimes like only Jewish lives matter, and yes that attitude needs to be shot down in flames
but there are also people who would pop champagne if every Jew was dead. I use champagne to point out that said drinkers are NOT Muslims.
Also, as folks like these show, Palestine was shown a bloodlust that is, yes, worthy of contempt:
http://www.seattlepi.com/sports/article/Munich-mastermind-has-no-regrets-1196762.php
http://suite101.com/article/mickey-mouse-clone-teaches-hate-a20887
However, we cannot place one against another, and while I doubt that was the intent of the OP, there are those who would use that for their ends, and they need to be denounced fully.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)the way to fight it, as is the way to fight all OTHER forms of hate, is to work for a uniformly hate-free world. That world won't come for a long time, but we have to try to get there.
My point is not to put any victims against any other victims, but simply to point out that the way you end injustice against one group is to work to end it against all.
And it's unlikely that anyone will ever forget the victims of Munich(for the record, while their killings were abhorrent and indefensible, they weren't targeted for being Jewish...they were targeted for being Israel...no Jewish athletes from any other country were targeted. We need to be precise on this).
The world mourned the Israeli victims in Munich WHEN they were killed.
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Agreed?
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)to acknowledge the 40 year anniversary of Munich and raise ongoing security concerns about the athletes in London and the surrounding areas.
But, do go on...
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)The world mourned the athletes then. The world still denounces their deaths today
It's not like people HAVE to keep proving that over and over.
And my ACTUAL point is that the Olympics did even less to acknowledge the murder of the students in Mexico City. That event was as tied to the Games as the Munich murders, and those students were just as much innocent victims as were the Israeli athletes in Munich.
It's wrong to privilege the loss of one group of innocent people over another.
Response to Ken Burch (Reply #40)
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Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)There's no moral difference whatsoever between the murder of the Israelis at Munich and the murder of the Mexican students in Mexico City. They were both the murder of totally innocent people by those who disagreed with what the represented(the struggle for a better world in the Mexican students' case, the cause of Zionism in the other). The killings were EQUALLY wrong and the victims were equally innocent. If you hold anything like a universalist conception of justice, you'd mourn both equally.
And it's wrong to privilege the murder of one group of innocents over another. Decent people accept that.
At the next Olympics, BOTH sets of victims should get a minute of silence.
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)This is a total FIRST for you, and I am just jumping in randomly with no background and no history.
Works for me. 
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)I oppose all prejudice. That automatically puts me in solidarity with all victims of oppression-including the victims of antisemitism.
There's no moral difference between the dead in Mexico City and the dead in Munich. Both were killed because of what the represented and the Olympics were a pretext for both their deaths.
And it's simply wrong to argue that only the Israeli deaths mattered. The Mexican students were just as much innocent victims and terrorism is still terrorism when its conducted by the state.
Why would you ever privilege the deaths of one group of innocents before any others? We're all equal in value as human beings.
(voluntarily edited to remove language that may have caused offense).
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I can't help you.
If the fact that it IS being acknowledged pisses you off or rubs you the wrong way, ...I REALLY can't help you.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)It's the notion that these deaths were a greater crime than the others that's the issue.
No innocent life is of any greater value than any other innocent life. We have to believe, as a world, that all lives are of equal value and worth or we're doomed.
And it's troubling that this whole thing got turned into "the Olympics HAS to do this or their a bunch of antisemites". It doesn't honor the Munich dead to turn this into that sort of litmus test.
I agreed that there should have been a moment of silence...but I don't agree with the manufactured outraged or the insinuations as to why. And I mean it when I say that the Mexico City victims should be given their moment of silence as well.
OK?
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I mean, the entire notion of the Olympics is predicated upon special people doing something special. And 40 years ago, some of those people- particpants in the games- were brutally killed, in part, because the folks in charge of the games fucked up and didn't adequately protect them.
It wasn't just 'associated with the games', it WAS the games. That's why it's different.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)I saw it, it was on global television. They stopped the Games for three days(perhaps they should just have canceled the rest of the Games, but I don't think either the U.S. or Soviet governments OR the media corporations covering the Games would have tolerated that)and there was a televised event commemorating the victims, unless I remember horribly wrong.
It was criminal that the Israeli athletes were killed, but I'm suspicious of the motives of at least some of those who were demanding the additional commemoration at The current Games...I think some were trying to use the question of having another commemoration of the Munich murders at these games to make some a comment about Palestinians today, and those who were using it for that purpose are being inappropriate.
I do think the IOC should officially apologize for not allowing a Palestinian team at the 1972 games, since it appears that that refusal was the act that directly precipitated the kidnapping of the Israeli athletes. And I also believe that there needs to be a real, independent investigation into the of the German law enforcement authorities to stage a rescue mission, since that decision, and the way in which the attempt led to a crossfire situation, was what led to the deaths of MOST of the Israeli athletes(the original intent of the Palestinian kidnappers was simply to use the athletes as a bargaining chip...not to kill them).
To me, these last two things are far more important than a moment of silence, and would honor the victims at a far greater level.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I would humbly submit that that's where you run into trouble. The "but".
In other words, it pisses you off. Which you said it didn't. In fact, upthread you said it was about no lives being worth more than any other lives, not about not wanting to commemorate this loss of life or objecting to commemorating this specific loss of life.
That's reading an awful lot into a minute or so of silence.
Okay, wait a minute. Back the truck up, for a second. You don't think there should be any formal acknowledgement by the IOC of the murder of the Israeli athletes at the 72 games, but you DO think there should be an apology issued to the Palestinians for not being allowed to field a team. Because... let me make sure I'm understanding this, correctly; not being allowed to field a team prompted the Palestinians to go and kill Israeli athletes (and not, say, the members of the IOC who were involved in the decision not to allow a Palestinian team?) ...
and, seriously. You're seriously suggesting that was the impeteus behind the terrorist attack?
I know you're not suggesting it justifies it, in the least, of course.
But... really?
C'mon, man.
It was a clusterfuck, no one would deny that, but the responsibility for the terrorist murder lies with the terrorists, no one else.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)I do question the motives of some who have pushed for this.
There's no contradiction between those two thoughts.
And I didn't say there shouldn't be any more formal acknowledgement(the memorial service at the Munich Games was already a formal acknowledgment...)so don't put those words in my mouth or my mind.
It should never have been turned into something that became "if you DON'T join the demands for another acknowledgement, you're an antisemite". That wasn't appropriate.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)really, any attempt at discussion turns into a battle of "yuh huh!" v. "nuh uh!" with occasional references to a dopey Hanna-Barbara cartoon from the 80's.
You're better off alphabetically organizing your freezer or something.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)n/t.
LeftishBrit
(41,212 posts)but the difference is that the murdered Israeli athletes were DIRECTLY involved in the Olympics. They were not only murdered at around the same time and place at the Olympics; they were murdered as participants in the Olympics.
I am all in favour of a memorial for the students who were murdered in Mexico; but there is no compelling reason why it should be part of the Olympic ceremonies, whereas in the case of the Israeli athletes, it was an Olympic-related tragedy, and thus would be appropriately commemorated in this context.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)And it's pretty certain that the IOC would have acted in exactly the same way if any other athletes had been killed by the enemies of their nations(if, for example, Ulster Catholic athletes on the British team had been killed in a rescue attempt between the German police and some crazy Loyalists who'd kidnapped them, for example). I think it's more about bureaucratic inertia than deliberate malice.
btw, was anybody pushing for this before the last month prior to the Games? I hadn't heard of any such demands prior to the last few weeks or so. If it actually was a last-minute thing, I kind of wonder if the intent was simply to try to make the IOC embarass itself by saying no rather than actually getting the moment of silence.
demosincebirth
(12,549 posts)without getting into truculent discussions . The progressive, liberal, all encompassing, compassionate, democrats that we are suppose to be can't even accept opinions of one poster who to me was just voicing his opinion on the Munich Olympics which I have, in away, agree with him.
burrowowl
(17,653 posts)My Aunt was a Professor of Mathematics there at the time and was disgusted and more.
This is remembered in Mexico, unlike what happens in the US of A by 'Mercuns"
B Calm
(28,762 posts)
bananas
(27,509 posts)lunatica
(53,410 posts)so no one will call it terrorism precisely because of that. It would also be considered an insult to another country for the same reason.
And there are many such incidents like that in Mexico's recent history. How do you think they keep the peasants down?
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Perhaps it will happen if Mexico actually has a real revolution someday, with the NEW government having the commemoration at a future Olympics.
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)
loudsue
(14,087 posts)Terrorism is terrorism....even when it wears a uniform.
