A Princeton sociologist spent 8 years asking rural Americans why theyre so pissed off

[tenderfoot]

Hint: it’s not about the economy.

Robert Wuthnow, a sociologist at Princeton University, spent eight years interviewing Americans in small towns across the country. He had one goal: to understand why rural America is so angry with Washington.

Sean Illing
In the book, you argue that the anger we’re seeing in rural America is less about economic concerns and more about the perception that Washington is threatening the way of life in small towns. How, specifically, is Washington doing this?

Robert Wuthnow
I’m not sure that Washington is doing anything to harm these communities. To be honest, a lot of it is just scapegoating. And that’s why you see more xenophobia and racism in these communities. There’s a sense that things are going badly, and the impulse is to blame “others.”

They believe that Washington really does have power over their lives. They recognize that the federal government controls vast resources, and they feel threatened if they perceive Washington’s interest being directed more toward urban areas than rural areas, or toward immigrants more than non-immigrants, or toward minority populations instead of the traditional white Anglo population.

Sean Illing
But that’s just racism and cultural resentment, and calling it a manifestation of some deeper anxiety doesn’t alter that fact.

Robert Wuthnow
I don’t disagree with that. I’m just explaining what I heard from people on the ground in these communities. This is what they believe, what they say, not what I believe.

Sean Illing
I’m still struggling to understand what exactly these people mean when they complain about the “moral decline” of America. At one point, you interview a woman who complains about the country’s “moral decline” and then cites, as evidence, the fact that she can’t spank her children without “the government” intervening. Am I supposed to take this seriously?

Robert Wuthnow
It’s an interesting question. What does it mean for us to take that seriously? I guess my point is that she takes it seriously, even if we don’t or shouldn’t. Does she still spank her children? Probably. Is she just using that as an example of how the country is changing and how Washington is driving that change? Probably.

Now, I doubt she made this us up herself. She likely heard it at church or from her neighbors or from Fox News or talk radio. Again, what I kept hearing from people is a general fear that traditional moral rules were being wiped out by a government and a culture that doesn’t understand the people who still believe in these things.

Sean Illing
I guess I just don’t know how to respond to these sorts of complaints. Yes, the world has changed; it’s always changing. And I understand the sense of loss some people feel because of that, but at some point, we have to acknowledge that culture evolves and stop trying to unwind the historical clock.

Robert Wuthnow
I grew up in rural America; I still have a great deal of affection for rural America. But I find a lot of this quite depressing. Part of me wants to take some of these people, shake them up, and tell them to “move on.” This is the 21st century, after all. Quit listening to Rush Limbaugh and try to think as clearly as you can about what’s going on.

But another part of me says it’s important to understand where they’re coming from and not simply dismiss them as disconnected or out of touch with reality. If they feel threatened by racial diversity or homosexuality or abortion or whatever it might be, I want to understand why they feel that way. As a scholar, that’s the only way I’m going to learn anything.

more: https://www.vox.com/2018/3/13/17053886/trump-rural-america-populism-racial-resentment

[Wellstone ruled]

1. The last paragraph tells

one the real truth.

Wuthnow lays the truth bare.

[underpants]

38. Scrolled down to check it out

Thanks

[bearsfootball516]

2. Here's it put simply:

People in rural America spend almost all their lives, if not all their lives there. Extremely homogenous (white) communities. Lot of them aren't outwardly racist, but have a subconscious fear of minorities due to never, ever, interacting with them.

Then President Obama was elected, and it stoked those internal fears.

I used to live in rural Indiana. They aren't bad people, per say. Oftentimes, they just don't know better because they've never ventured more than 10 miles outside of their little town of 3,000 people.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

5. Bingo.

Couple that with one party using racist "wedge issues" for the last 50 years for one purpose - tax cuts - and youhave a recipe for disaster.

[Dustlawyer]

36. The only radio in rural areas is RW. This is the problem in a nutshell.

These people are being manipulated to vote against their own interest by hearing that their problems are caused by minorities/immigrants/Liberals. They don't bother to think for themselves and just go with whatever the other ignorant racists believe and what the hate filled RW talk host tells them.

[tecelote]

56. +1!

[FailureToCommunicate]

64. Agreed! RW hate radio is the fertilizer that keeps growing large patches of small minds.

[Upthevibe]

110. Excellent illustration...

I blame a whole lot of this on Rush Limbaugh.

[Nitram]

112. The cartoon explains it in a nutshell. A wing-nutshell.

Scapegoating, pure and simple. It is very difficult to make a living farming, or to find a good-paying job, in rural America. That's not the government's fault - nor is it the government's fault that manufacturing industries stopped being competitive. But conservatives get votes by scapegoating minorities, the federal government, and liberals.

[TwistOneUp]

115. This illustration shows the effect perfectly!

Unfortunately, it does not show the reason why people are unable to cope with change.

That reason is simply this: people have questions about change. They feel they need advice, so they go to talk to Others who criticize any change as being "wrong".

I'll leave it to you to figure out who these Others are. I don't want to prejudice anyone else's analysis of the problem.

[Farmer-Rick]

128. I currently live in rural America, TN

The reason rural people are so susceptible to the racist, right wing propaganda is because they are so very poor and afraid.

First all you can get out here is right wing crap. It is constantly on the radio, it is spewing from the FOX owned local station, it is in the local newspaper. It is literally fed to you constantly unless you take action to find more liberal information or as I like to call it....Facts.

Second, you have very few opportunities to make any money. It use to be that diary, meat and egg producers could make a decent living. Hell, if you grew what I like to call Southern vegetables, like okra, collard greens, field beans, corn, watermelon, peanuts and other veggies you could make a living wage. Most rural communities were based on an agriculture economy. But all that has been taken away. The markets for local grown food was taken over by huge corporations that rely on underpaid labor.

So then a few big industries moved in. We use to have about 5 or 6 mills here. We use to have a major chemical plant and a parts factory. They either slowly faded with China taking over or they died with the last crash. All we got now is Walmart and fast food. There is no longer any industry in most rural towns....they are dying. You can get a shitty part time job but you can't make a decent living.

The older folks watched the crash and their neighbors disappear and they are afraid what will happen to them. Many of their pensions and savings were destroyed in the crash while they watched both Dems and the GOP bail out the banks. They are afraid of poverty and losing what little they have. Which sets them up for the propaganda. If the economy here in rural America was so great, why did they vote for an idiot like Trump? They thought they vote for change. Because Trump fed them the same crap that the propaganda set them up for., they voted for him. Give them economic opportunity and they will vote for whoever does that AND they will be less susceptible to the propaganda.

I'm ashame sometimes at how these folks get hoodwinked but I'm more ashamed that America has removed all economic opportunity from hard working people then turned around and blamed them for Trump.

[dvduval]

129. Very well said

Really enjoyed reading. I am from Georgia, and I thought of my relatives and their lives.

[klook]

133. Great post.

Thanks for this view into what's going on in "the Hinterlands."

I grew up in a medium-sized southern city and have visited and travelled through places like you describe many times. It's shocking to see the poverty nowadays -- shuttered businesses, closed hospitals, fast food chain "restaurants," gas stations/convenience stores (all doing a brisk business in lottery tickets) -- and every 50 or 100 miles, a WalMart on what used to be farm land, sometimes accompanied by a cluster of chain stores that people drive to for an hour more to do what shopping they can afford.

And what's unseen is even worse: the hopelessness, depression, alcoholism, drug addiction, sub-par education, and domestic strife/abuse.

On the plus side, from the perspective of a traveler, you can still find roadside stands with boiled peanuts (often advertised on hand painted signs as "p-nuts" ), homemade jams and jellies, and other delights -- and sometimes even locally grown vegetables and fruit, though that's less common than in the past. And, thanks to rising immigrant populations, two of the best Mexican restaurants I've ever dined at were in small south Georgia towns.

[FailureToCommunicate]

134. +1

[phylny]

65. This is why I bristle when people here on DU complain about

programming on SiriusXM. It's the ONLY progressive option I have here in rural Virginia.

[Dustlawyer]

68. It is the main reason Texas has been so red. So many almost empty miles where you can only get one

or two stations, and they both will have the same thing on, RW talk.

[NCTraveler]

85. Thanks for saying that. Glad I read it.

I hadn’t thought about it.

[Thunderbeast]

69. Many of the "Public Use" radio licenses

have transferred from NPR affiliates and Community Radio to evangelical content.

You can get your RW hate fix from Rush or from a bible-thumping media preacher,

[lindysalsagal]

42. I also think technology contributes to their feeling of loss:

It makes no sense to them. My 84 yo Dad won't look at a computer screen, but he'd charge a raging bull without a thought. He's never been afraid of anything in his life. Computers and Smart phones freak him out.

[grantcart]

60. This was all laid out in the book "Future Shock" 40 years ago

The rate of change would overcome many people's ability to absorb that change.

New technology would be quickly absorbed in metropolitan areas where media and education would feed the growth and fear would become more infested in rural areas that don't grasp the changes which not only affect their jobs but their media and their religion.

Their fears would concentrate xenophobia and religious intolerance.

[AllyCat]

79. It doesnt help that in most cases, rural internet blows

Worse than what the urban areas get.

[catrose]

105. It really does

And it gets worse every year, as bigger companies gobble up the Ma & Pa ISPs, many who were trying to provide good service.

Lately I've been hearing that there's not much demand for the internet in rural areas--which is certainly true if you're talking about the kind of service that barely allows an email without attachments to go through, much less bring up a website or get through a YouTube video without stuttering. And just forget online gaming or movies.

[DownriverDem]

121. Smart phones

don't freak me out, but I just don't want one. I use a flip phone. I can't stand how folks are so addicted to their smart phones. I'm a lot younger than your dad too.

[onetexan]

62. you've summed it up well

one fears what one doesn't know. People who are ignorant have tendency to make false assumptions about what they don't know, often find scapegoats to blame for their troubles, and are often resentful of minorities and people who don't look like them or live the way they do.

[moondust]

67. Exactly.

That unfamiliarity makes it easy for GOP politicians to stoke fear and hatred of minorities for political gain.

[JI7]

76. So how come native americans on reservations are not that way ?

[DownriverDem]

122. Native Americans

have been discriminated against unlike rural folks. I love how they have found out how to make money (Casinos) to make their lives better.

[JI7]

80. People in Washington state, Oregon, many northeast states also mostly see other white people

But they didn't support trump

[MountCleaners]

83. Proximity to Canada, environmental concerns, lack of religious nuttery

I imagine that the religious make-up in those areas is more mainline Protestant and therefore more liberal than it is elsewhere.

[JI7]

86. And the religion of the right wing is rooted in bigotry

All goes back to the same thing.

They had a choice of many other republicans. The fact they voted for trump shows what they are about and it's not morals.

[brush]

102. Also they're on the west coast. Proximity to California's influence comes into play.

[Stryst]

130. Recent polls from Washington show that religiosity in the state

Is far lower than the rest of the country.

https://www.bestplaces.net/religion/state/washington

[Comatose Sphagetti]

104. This

I live in rural Indiana. I kiss the ground every day I went to college and met people from all over the world. Broadened my horizons. Taught me not to fear others... that people are just people.
Cynically, the right-wing powers-that-be mock and deride college. Don't want rural people to get out and meet the rest of humanity: Critical thinking skills do not comport with right-wing authoritarianism.

[llmart]

111. Very nicely put.

I just posted something similar on another thread.

I grew up in a rural, small town and yet I was curious enough to learn about the larger world outside my podunk little town. This is pre-computers. I had parents who read and instilled the love of learning in me by making sure I could get to the library in the next town. My mother used to say, "If you can read, you can learn anything." I left that small town as soon as I graduated from high school and I rarely go back, but I went back in the fall of 2016 and met with a few of my classmates who had never left the town and it was depressing. Trump signs everywhere. It was also depressing because the place hadn't changed very much and the highlight of my friends' week was going to the local diner and eating the same type of greasy food diners served in the 1950's and talking about who int he town was sick with what or who had died, etc. etc. I wanted to get out of there as quickly as possible. It was like time stopped for them in the late '60's.

[pandr32]

3. Ignorance and fear

This is the hotbed of racism, sexism, homophobia, and all other hatefulness. This is the hotbed that is mined by Republicans for power.

[BigmanPigman]

61. This mentality goes back generations

and won't likely change in my lifetime. I read a great article in Raw Story that put it all out there very clearly. It is long but worth the read. My sister sent it to a lot of her Dem friends too. It explains a lot.

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/insider-explains-rural-christian-white-america-dark-terrifying-underbelly/

[TwistOneUp]

116. FUD: Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. nt

[Historic NY]

4. They think they are victims...

because Ozzie & Harriet and Father know Best don't really exist. It never did only on TV.

[BeyondGeography]

6. These conversations are never about American capitalism

or only indirectly at best. The primary destabilizing element in American life is economics, not politics, and cities aren’t immune to it either. Rural people aren’t the only ones who pine for the good old days. Up until the late 90s I could live in NYC in a rent stabilized apartment for under $800 a month. Those days are gone. Gentrification has made city life unaffordable, even if two well-paid people can make a go of it, they’re paying a huge price in terms of near-term stress and long-term security.

The conversation at the link is interesting, but it’s missing a big piece of what ails all of us, which is runaway ownership-oriented capitalism and weak government.

[Kurt V.]

13. This.

so many on the right think Washington has control over their lives when in fact the wealthiest corporations have far more control over all of us.

[Moostache]

18. Bingo! The real problems are NEVER discussed, and these people are oblivious to them...

Who is really at risk over the next 20-30 years? EVERYONE dammit! Rural, urban, suburban, exurban, orbiting...

The capitalist system of profits over people and planet was planted the seeds of our own destruction. These so-called heart-felt cultural issues are nothing more than pablum meant to mollify the masses and distract them long enough to finish plundering the system of any redemptive potential...

First, they destroyed the unions as an effective method of getting profits distribute TO the people instead of extracted FROM the people...as productivity and compensation decoupled 40+ years ago, the die was cast...ownership is rewarded, period...labor? Pshaw...

Later, they successfully blocked universal health care as a right...you don't even HEAR that any more...it took DECADES to get as far as Obamacare as a first step and then less than 1/2 of a single GOP term to destroy the foundation and make rescuing the first step as the only thing a Democrat may be able to do, forget about going further or getting to universal care...

Education? Public university education in the 1950's through the early 1990's was affordable and accessible to most middle-class kids...Now? mid-6 figure debt loads for an undergraduate degree? My daughter could not attend my alma mater as an out-of-state student because I would not allow her to take on $250,000.00 in student debt to do so...the costs and debt loads spiral out of control and nothing of value is done to change this...that DeVos moron should be pistol-whipped and thrown out of her office NOW...yet she and her ilk are making policy? How goddamn stupid are we as a whole????

Environment?
Equality?
International engagement?

On and on and on the list goes....and at the root of it all - the almighty dollar dollar bill y'all!!! Make that cash and damn the rest of humanity if they get in the way. Politicians and the system are bought, paid for and instructed on what to do, what to say, how they are allowed to vote...

Unless the world undergoes a sharp turn away from this destructive ideology and figures out a way to cage and control the beast instead of allowing it free-range roaming and no restrictions, the world and its inhabitants bigger than a toaster are doomed.

[BeyondGeography]

25. Well said...now we are all supposed to earn and save millions so we can afford our medical bills

I saw it on TV. And along comes the experts to do a "deep dive.” Not into the royal financial screwing we are receiving, all of us, but everything else...Homosexuals! Blacks! It's fucking mind-numbing.

[TeapotInATempest]

47. You're absolutely right, of course, but

Fox, Limbaugh, et al have warped so many minds into believing that Unions=lazy workers who are jealous of the rich, Obamacare=Socialism and education=elitism.

It's a neat trick to take things away from people and then to convince them they don't want those things, anyway.

[druidity33]

75. As much as I love DU...

I still wish I could recommend posts within a thread. Hopefully they'll work on that in the next iteration. If I had the ability I'd rec this post, be assured.

K&R

[dhol82]

77. Agreed!

[brush]

103. Rec that she/he make it an OP. We never do get into capitalism v other economic systems.

It's a scary, taboo topic for many as we've been continually bombarded with the idea that pure capitalism is the holy grail when combinations of it and other systems might be better for all of us.

And while we're at it, maybe a discussion on our two-party system v a parliamentary system with multiple parties—confidence in trump's government would've collapsed by now and new elections would have to be held in a parliamentary system.

[LisaM]

40. You are right on about urban people missing the old days, too. I live in Seattle.

Gone is the union-loving, slightly gritty, partying, vibrant city full of book stores, dive bars, and music stores that I moved to. Gone is the live music scene and the joint cover for jazz clubs at Pioneer Square. The cool old wood houses that people used to live in are quickly vanishing, too, in favor of ugly, and I mean searingly ugly apartments that look half finished. It's overpriced and soulless, and people who are so proud of voting in a jump to a $15 minimum wage that's harmed small businesses have no problem with utilizing the gig economy for everything from getting to work (yes, I know people who commute in Ubers) to having their food delivered.

I'm beginning to hate it here, I hate almost every second I step outside, and yet I'm trapped in a way most people are - I'm doing okay, but not well enough to start somewhere else, and I'm too old to reasonably expect to start a new career.

Thank you for summing this up nicely. It's true, Democrats (who at heart think more like rural populists than Republicans do) would do well to find a way to talk up those similarities.

Like others have pointed out, Fox News and right-wing radio has done a great deal of harm, probably far more than we can measure.

[TeapotInATempest]

48. Yes. I'm an urbanite, too, and I miss certain things about the "old days".

I'm lucky in that I absolutely adore my city, but I rent here as I can't afford to buy in any safe neighborhood near downtown, even though I am well-paid.

I'm not too old to move, but where would I go? The suburbs? The exurbs? No thanks, it's not for me to go live in the land of big box stores, chain restaurants and a god-awful commute. (And while there are suburbs near my city that are older and lovely, I'm just not willing to be mortgaged up to my eyeballs to buy a house there.)

[luvtheGWN]

52. "safe neighbourhood"?

Husband and I lived in Toronto for 40 years and then retired and moved to a small town near the US border.(I can see it from my back deck). Never gave a thought to moving to or living in a "safe neighbourhood" in Toronto. But here in this lovely town I installed an alarm system after my husband passed away last fall, and keep doors locked at all times because we've had a rash of burglaries. But our town does not have gated communities. We do have Neighbourhood Watch and look to each other to help keep us safe (sort of the same way we pay more in taxes to ensure healthcare for all....)

All of this is to say that I shudder (and weep a little) when my American friends or relatives are moving and looking for a "safe neighbourhood" or a gated community.

[TeapotInATempest]

53. Well, I live in Chicago, so...

I don't really want to get shot. And I've lived here most of my life so I know whereof I speak.

If I wanted a gated community, I'd live in the suburbs.

[TwistOneUp]

117. I grew up in Chicago...

And the changes that are happening there are truly scary. It's not "racist code" when you walk to a neighborhood restaurant and are accosted by a group of teens carrying weapons that want your shit. Thaf's not racist code, that's a "modern problem" that no one seems to want to fix.

That type of crime is now occurring more and more often here in the Bay Area. I don't use BART specifically for this reason.

[alarimer]

114. Americans have been misled into thinking crime is worse than it is.

Safe neighborhood is often racist code, but I'm sure the poster above you didn't mean it that way. Gated communities were certainly started because of racism and white flight. But I'm like you, I would never live in a gated community. In fact I went out of my way to avoid any HOA at all.

[BeyondGeography]

49. Thanks for the corroboration...My city is gone and it gets goner all the time

Even some NYC Republican types are at the end of their tether:

https://nypost.com/2018/03/10/super-rich-property-buyers-are-bad-for-nyc/

[dhol82]

81. I have lived in Greenwich Village since 1970

Changes here are ridiculous. It’s become rich yuppies wall to wall
I, fortunately, am rent stabilized. My landlord is trying to evict me. The fight continues.

[KPN]

66. Capitalism in itself is not the problem, its governance that is

driven by and favors concentrated capital. Capitalism works well for people as a whole with regulations that favor less concentration of capital. Corporations compete and strive to capture more and more market share. It's also in their nature to grow in order to reward share owners. One of the best ways to deal with your competition is to buy it. We need to incentivize smaller businesses over mega businesses for capitalism to work well for all.

[BeyondGeography]

109. That is why I specified American capitalism

We make way for capital more than any other western nation; shareholder “values” started taking wholesale precedence over actual values in the 80s, the beginning of our latest Gilded Age. The resulting changes in everything from concentration of capital and income to the cost of necessities like housing, health care and education have been dramatic and as the economy becomes technology-based they are intensifying. Everyone is affected, not just those in rural areas. Meantime, we basically ignore the topic as a society and personalize what is a systemic problem along social lines. It is getting us nowhere.

[JI7]

84. There is s difference between wanting affordable housing and wanting only white rule

[alarimer]

113. This

Some of these areas where factories have closed look like war zones. Nothing is replacing it. I'm not sure why sociologists discount this kind of destabilization.

Just yesterday people were talking about Toy-r-Us and the official word in the media is that it is due to internet shopping and Amazon, when, in fact, their downfall was caused by private equity firms buying it and then extracting all the profits, leaving Toys R US with an unsustainable debt. They did the same thing to the Denver Post and newspapers everywhere (an extremely dangerous trend in the media). It's all over retail, but the media only gives us the facile, "Amazon did it" story, which may be true but it's not the whole truth.

I think the media don't tell the truth because many of them are also owned by this sort of private equity. Can't bite the hand that feeds, etc.

Late-stage capitalism run amok.

[BumRushDaShow]

7. This comes from being isolated and insulated

and believe it or not, it is not just a phenomena of rural America. It very much exists in urban America as well in neighborhoods that are themselves the same size as those small rural towns. You have microcosms of culture and beliefs that exist in these isolated pockets and this only gets reinforced when the people there have little or no access to other areas outside of those communities.

The existence of the internet opened up these areas to other places and cultures and ideas, but then doing so challenged their belief systems without any way to add perspective.

The difference between the rural "pissed off" and the urban "pissed off" is that the rural group was given a means to vent through access to RW talk radio where the urban group was given a means to escape via access to urban music radio.

[CrispyQ]

8. "Quit listening to Rush Limbaugh..."

On air, 12-3pm. Three hours a day of blasting dems & liberals & minorities & uppity women. Spewing hate & lies, three hours a day. Rural people listen to AM radio & the dems have ignored this for 30+ years & still do. Stations that carry his hate fest:

[Va Lefty]

10. This! in conjunction with faux news

[dalton99a]

11. +1

[Snackshack]

14. Your comment...

About how Dems have ignored this for the past 30 yrs and still do is right on target. I disagree whole heartedly with the answers these people gave to the Professor. Disagree or not their points of view cannot be written off and continue to be ignored by Dems. The damage done by years of fanning hatred and misinformation of the left by the likes of rush/savage/jones/Fox News has to be countered. It is this hate that caused these people to vote for trump...even though trump was clearly unfit/unqualified for the job. Hate is a primary emotion and it causes people to override any rational/reasoned thinking. Dems have to get in to these places and start communicating with these communities with facts and the reality of Democratic Party. They cannot continue to be written off.

I understand that campaign financing only goes so far and resources need to applied strategically but when I hear Democratic political strategists totally write off states because historically they have voted republican year after year it is frustrating. Dems should have a 50 state strategy as Howard Dean had for every election. These state will remain republican as long as Dems continue to ignore them.

[rainin]

22. Ignore them. Focus on the media. These people can be reconditioned just as easily

as they were brainwashed in the first place. I've seen this first-hand. Elderly mom brainwashed to believe everything Bannan says, now easily dismisses Bannan because her brainwashing changes her mind.

We need liberal media to CRUSH AND DROWN OUT rush/jones/fox. That's the only way. "Understanding them"? POINTLESS!!

[Snackshack]

138. Agree.

100%.

The elimination of The Fairness Doctrine while at the time seemed like no big deal has turned out to be disastrous. It needs to be brought back. Another thing that need to happen is ending the ability for one company to own all if not all of the media outlets in a given area.

[maxrandb]

46. Dems haven't ignored it

That's a bunch of crap.

- The Affordable Care Act was specifically designed to help rural America by expanding Medicaid, supporting rural Medical Centers and Hospitals, expanding access to care and incrementally helping to reduce costs.

- The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau was specifically designed to protect Middle Class folks from predatory lending, make sure that Financial Management Firms measure success in how well their investors do...NOT the fund managers, and providing an avenue for folks to petition for redress for firms and policies that screwed them.

- Strengthening and expanding Social Security was specifically designed to ensure folks all over America could maintain a decent quality of life in their twilight years.

- Cracking down on Pay-Day lenders was specifically designed to ensure we don't have folks paying 500% interest on loans.

- Cracking down on For-Profit schools and reducing the interest rates on Student Loans, and even forgiving some Student Loans was specifically designed so that Middle Class families could see their kids better themselves and improved their career opportunities and lifetime earning potential without having to take out a 3rd Mortgage on their homes.

- The Financial Reforms and Dodd-Frank were specifically designed to help people stay in their homes and avoid foreclosure on the single most valuable investment many of them have.

and on and on and on.

Dems have been working and striving to make things better for the Middle Class since well before the enactment of the New Deal.

Everything the CONservatives have stood for, for over 100 years, has been designed to transfer large amounts of OUR national treasure to the fortunate few and idiot sons of millionaires and billionaires.

But what do rural people do?

they sit there with drool rolling down their chins, listening to Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Michael Savage...and blaming everyone by themselves and their stupid fucking votes for the asshat party.

They never consider that maybe their blind support for such paragons of "everyday, hard-scrabble, working blue collar guys" like Donnie "My dad gave me a mere $50M pittance to help me" Two-Scoops, Marco "I've never worked a day in my life" Rubio, Paul "sure I lived on SSDI until the Koch's gave me $100M, so fuck you I got Mine" Ryan and Mitch "I'd sell my soul for some Koch Money" McConnel...is the fucking problem.

No, their live will continue to be shit, but they'll blame the "Liberals, Hippies, Dope-Smokers and Queers".

They're nothing but ignorant, racist, ReTrumplican ass-kissing morons!

[elehhhhna]

101. 70M

[GoneOffShore]

107. Exactly. And everytime I hear something about 'understanding' these people

I'm reminded of Blazing Saddles.

[mcar]

126. Well said!

[Snackshack]

137. Please re-read my

First paragraph.

I agree with the first part of your reply an partially with the second part. Dems on a legislative level have not ingnored them. But they have not done a very good job at communicating with them about the facts and that needs to change.

These folks are not all just “sitting there with drool running down their chins” some, but certainly not all.

[hibbing]

23. Try 20 hours a day

My local AM starts in the morning with Ingraham, then Rushie, the Hannity, then Levin...on and on it goes.


Peace

[certainot]

24. yep! 600 stations and that many again are the big problem but doomed by artificial intelligence

hate/lie radio should always be at the front of the line in identifying this problem. all that 'economic angst' and 'populism' bullshit should be thrown out.

Now, I doubt she made this us up herself. She likely heard it at church or from her neighbors or from Fox News or talk radio.

it's also the neighbors who listen to talk radio and spread it to a large secondry and tertiary audience that doesn't stay informed.

but artificial intelligence makes it faster and a lot cheaper down to $5/hr and below, to get talk radio transcribed. it won't take much activism before advertisers head for the hills when they start seeing their names and contact info right there in writing next to the lies and racismn and trum/nra love....

[TwistOneUp]

119. I'll go with church for $1000, Alex! nt

[ismnotwasm]

9. K&R

[BannonsLiver]

12. Hard to discuss rural America

Without liberal usage of the term willfully ignorant. I’ve been around plenty who are proud of their ignorance about the world.

[BamaRefugee]

16. Having deep rural roots myself in Alabama,it seems like lack of education and willful ignorance

are badges of honor there.
There are of course gleaming exceptions, but that's always true Down South, you find the good people and you treasure them like rare jewels

[geardaddy]

26. It's true Up North, too.

Rural areas of Minnesota, Wisconsin, the Dakotas, Iowa, and Illinois also full of people who have willful ignorance as a badge of honor.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

37. +1. . . . nt

[kstewart33]

15. The key to solving the problem is better education.

Education in rural America stinks, to put it bluntly. Most of these people don't know anything about how the federal government works. They can't answer basic questions about Congress (eg what are the two houses?). They have an extremely poor knowledge of American history. Why? Because their schooling is terrible.

So they rely on Rush, Hannity, etc.

Our schools are underfunded especially in the rural areas. It will take a generation or two but improve education there, but their knowledge and understanding will grow.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

39. Have to make education desirable. Now "heroes" are athletes, TV stars, and musicians. . . . . nt

[appalachiablue]

89. CIVICS isn't taught in schools much anymore, intentionally I think.

And it explains plenty of the ignorance and vilification of government in the last 20-30 years. This I didn't realize until the last few years; it's awful and dangerous. Reducing or distorting HISTORY and omitting humanities and arts is also evident and harmful. Instead much focus on money, finance, Markets, technology and lotsa sports and entertainment, typifies the period we're in now.

[kstewart33]

91. Agree completely.

Our education system is screwed up.

[azureblue]

17. religion

rural American life revolves heavily around "the church". And most rural churches are baptist, or derivatives of. Those preachers are all Old Testament fire and brimstone, fear inducing, and this is the basis for cult thinking. We are good and "the other" is bad. So a lot of rural people think that way and self wall themselves into noncritical thinking and religion based rationalization. IOW, anything that is different becomes, according their mindset, against their religion. And they will overlook faults of their friends and leaders because they are good Christians and they will be forgiven. So they become willing and malleable sheep, their friends and neighbors reinforce their beliefs, and they become easily misled people. So Rush, ad nauseum, grab their attention easily.

I don't speak from theory. I speak from first hand, grew up in it, experience. From childhood to an adult who left and came back, from knowing several preachers and priests. It is sad to me to see good people with good hearts get like this, and know that there is no one who can wake them up, but themselves. . And if there society condones it, then why change?

I need to add this: That lifestyle is dying quickly, due to the internet. Rural kids are much better informed and in contact all around the world, so they come to realize that bigoted uncle Trey is just to be tolerated, and ignored.

[Docreed2003]

73. Spot on...

Growing up on a tobacco farm I know very well the power that churches have in those rural communities. I was raised in a split Southern Baptist/Irish Catholic house which made for fun times, lol. But I know exactly what you mean that those rural churches indoctrinate their flock with fear of “otherness”, fear of education, fear of Democrats...I witnessed first hand the pulpit being used as a means to push the evangelical political message in the early 80’s as a means to “return America to God”. That level of brainwashing is truly amazing and incredibly difficult to break.

[TwistOneUp]

120. Hear, here! n/t

[mythology]

19. How exactly do they separate economics from the other issues?

In political science it's been proven time after time economic issues lead to the rise of racist parties. I would argue that people feeling increased economic tension are likely to blame "others" immigrants, minorities, women, far away Washington bureuacrats.

We as a society define ourselves (and in particular men) by what we do. For a long time being a man meant doing some sort of physical job and that led to a middle class lifestyle and you could get your son a job in that field. That's rapidly changing and even the factory jobs that haven't been automated pay less. But it's all tied up into a larger sense of self.

[world wide wally]

20. My Mother was not a racist, but even she had her ingrained prejudices.

When she got older, she used to love to watch the Cubs on WGN from Chicago. I remember her remarking how the players were all "colored" now. "Colored" was the polite word for negro in her time. She said this with a certain disapproval in her voice and I was a bit shocked when I heard it. But I never heard her say anything truly bigoted or vile or hateful toward black people. There was just some kind of disconnect. She died before Trump ever came along, but i know she would have hated him. She already hated Rush Limbaugh.
The point is, I think many of these rural folk are like this, but now it has become outright racism spiced with a good dose of Trump hate.

[Delmette2.0]

50. My Mother is not a racist, but she has I grained prejudices.

I just had to tweek your subject line. My Mother is 92 and a few years back I offered to stop in at a bagel shop and pick up a variety of bagels. She immediately said "No". I ask if she had ever had a bagel, she said "No , It's Jewish food." I almost had to pull over and shake her. Really? WTF.

[SunSeeker]

21. Yep, it's all about bigotry. Surprised it took them 8 years to conclude the obvious. nt

[mudstump]

27. I could have saved this guy eight years of work....

by telling him that these people are brainwashed by a deliberate right-wing effort to control the message. It will be a massive undertaking to reprogram them back to reality.

[Eliot Rosewater]

28. White Americans receive and use privilege every single day of their lives.

I dont care why they are racist, bigoted and homophobic.

40 years ago it would have mattered to know why and address it, not anymore. Shun them.

[NRaleighLiberal]

29. brainwashed, angry, envious - but too apathetic to make positive changes.

[StarzGuy]

30. As a general point I can see

what the author is saying. I have lived in big cities, really, really rural in the middle of the Navajo nation (as a whitey teacher for 7 years) and now in a smallish town. I also find it almost unaffordable to live here. Housing prices are way over anyone but the 1% can afford. $200,000 for a double wide 10 year old mobile home. I can't qualify for a mortgage given that I am on SSDI and a small federal pension. And, there are very few and far in-between properties for sale at or below this price.

One mobile home listing for $99,500 is within my price range (built in 1984), but....it resides in a restricted 55 and up age retirement community where you may own your home but rent the lot it sits on. The lot rental price is $500/month. Okay, that $500 includes trash and snow removal waste and water. Big deal. Considering owners still will be paying for power and gas, its not such a good deal. The property has yet to get sold and the asking price has dropped a bit. It has been on the market for about 4 months. We'll see who paid what for this property.

So, yes, I do understand some of the problems rural Americans are experiencing, real or imaginary. The same housing crisis is also hitting big cities too. Have you heard of the mass exodus from San Francisco? People other than the 1% are being forced to relocate due to the high cost of housing there. I see the same trend across the country.

Now, I don't consider myself a racist but what I see on local (Phoenix stations are the only ones available to us here in northern Arizona. There are no TV stations here). news daily broadcasts are usually Hispanic peoples getting arrested for some serious crimes. That is also true here with murders and other violent crimes. I am not an open border advocate. I see some of the devastating results with illegals in this state. So, don't flame me for just offering a view from someone in a rural town in America.

[mcar]

127. $200,000 for a mobile home?

Really?

[IluvPitties]

31. Too many colored people in power, too much Spanish being spoken out there,

gays and lesbians are being open about who they are in front of our children, too many Asian-American doctors, we had a black president, etc...

That's their problem.

[DBoon]

33. and of course not a single "colored" person lives within miles of them

they just know its a problem.

[Ligyron]

70. Cause when they turn on the teeVee they see those "others" everywhere.

So they switch it over to Faux where the (few) colored people at least talk like them.

[NeoGreen]

32. It is not that they were Left Behind, they Failed to Keep Up (nt)

[Paladin]

34. Bullseye. Thank you for nailing it so concisely and so well. (nt)

[NeoGreen]

45. Thanks...and for my corollary...

..."life is hard, so buck up sissy pants".

[EffieBlack]

44. Because they think they shouldnt have to.

[bucolic_frolic]

35. They're pissed off because they envy those able to live in civilization

instead of neo-Appalachia. They express it with everything loud - mufflers, guns, boom-boom in the trunk. They're preppers but they prepare for yesteryear.

[EffieBlack]

41. People really concerned about moral decline of America dont elect the likes of Donald Trump

This is about race and white supremacy.

[deurbano]

55. Bingo! The evangelicals have revealed a level of of shameless (and shameful) hypocrisy

impossible for most of us (members of the human race) to even begin to fathom. Remember when Obama was the anti-Christ? Now they bow down before this grotesque money worshipper who has no other characteristics than greed, lust, covetous behavior, thievery, adultery, hunger for power, braggadocio, bullying, vanity, complete disregard for the poor except as targets of exploitation (etc., etc.)... and his son-in-law even has a skyscraper at 666 Fifth Avenue! (For people who actually believe in an anti-Christ... what more could they want?!) So, yeah... racism, white supremacy, misogyny, homophobia, etc..

[Ligyron]

71. Many voted for Trump only because the alternative was even more distasteful to them.

sad but true.

[JI7]

78. Exactly, and they had a choice among republicans so it's not even

just about voting party. There were other republican candidates besides trump but trump especially did well among these types.

[mentalslavery]

43. Its all lies for the things they can no longer say or do anymore....

I grew up in this environment. Its not about washington, or moral decline....or anything else....everyone from these places knows that each year there are things that they can not say or do anymore without getting flak!!


They want the freedom to say and do horrible things without consequence. Cuz, that is the way it was, and that is the way they want it to be!

Naturally, they can't admit it...but they know its the truth.

[First Speaker]

51. There has not been a time in American history when this story couldn't have been written...

...it's an evergreen. The "country" is always opposed to the cosmopolitan "city". The evil sophisticated values of the urban "elites" are always at war with the simon-pure inhabitants of God's Country. It plays out in every generation.

[appalachiablue]

100. And it's worldwide, not only the US. People in rural areas tend

to hold more conservative and traditional views, but not always. It's been the case for ages wherever, in Montana, Iowa, Kentucky or Burgundy, France or Punjab, India. Contact with large metropolitan areas/cities and exposure to new ideas, technology, products and peoples has always contributed to expanding people's outlooks and inclusion of others- the Obvious!

That said, many rural based people possess an asset too often lost today, keen judgment of people especially on a one on one basis, and horse sense. The RW Media propaganda works overtime to exacerbate rural areas lack of contact with cities and outsiders to reinforce and widen cultural and political division, plenty of which already exists. Oldest game in the book. Divide and Conquer or Divide and Rule as the Brits and Romans did.

[GulfCoast66]

54. We should focus on the escapees...

The population of Rural America continues to shrink because those with abilities, ambition, social skills and common sense generally get the hell out.

Rather than obsessing on the remnants left behind we need a way to insure those who leave find their way into the Democratic Party.

Not that we should not try in rural areas, but it will be little gained for lots of effort.

The Lamb election proved that. He won not by converting the rural deplorables but by switching the suburban, assumably educated voters.

[nolabear]

57. That interviewer did a godawful job.

I might not understand or agree with what those people believe but if I’d spent eight years interviewing people just to have someone show no honest curiosity but patronizing scorn I’d be furious. We can snark around here all we like but the way it was done taught us so much less than it could have.

[Skittles]

82. patronizing scorn?

that's the feeling that comes after listening to their pathetic excuses - they blame everyone but THEMSELVES and the ANTI-WORKER ASSHOLES they vote for

[nolabear]

94. I understand the ire, but if youre asking questions

you can get a lot more info about what the interviewee found out, or even believes, if you don’t lead the questions that way. Else why bother?

[Skittles]

97. you'll get the same answers no matter how you ask

it's like they've been pre-programmed by Rush and Faux

[X_Digger]

88. aka, "Princeton sociologist sets out to prove theory he already believes. Succeeds."

Film at 11.

[nolabear]

95. Whered you get that idea?

Didn’t read that way to me.

[Skittles]

58. they are their own worst enemy

Last edited Thu Mar 15, 2018, 06:41 PM - Edit history (1)

and NOTHING will teach them that

[Squinch]

59. The professor is a better person than I am. But on the other hand, it didn't take me 8 years

to figure out that those rural people who voted for the republican president did so because they are sexist and bigoted and they are pissed that they have lost A FEW of their unearned advantages against the rest of us. They still have plenty, but they have realized they can't compete unless they have ALL of them.

Sick to death of this demographic. Wish they would find those bootstraps they were always talking about to everyone else. Fuck understanding why they are the way they are, and thank god we can leave that to people like the professor.

Bring on the Democratic election strategy that focuses on getting out the votes of women and people of color who in the past have felt neglected because Democrats were trying to chase this poor "disaffected rural white man" who is unlikely to vote for a Democrat, and definitely not any female Democrat.

[betsuni]

98. BOOTSTRAPS!

This is all I can think about. These are the people who told everyone else to pull themselves up by their bootstraps; when the going gets tough, the tough get going; you could get a job if you really wanted to. But now! No bootstraps in sight, all out of bootstraps. Boo hoo.

[Squinch]

106. Yup. All the while KNOWING they were superior to those poor urban people.

Karma is only a beast if you are.

[dlk]

63. An Example of How Corporate America has Redirected their Attention Away from What They've Been up to

Corporate America has drastically changed the American landscape and has also successfully redirected everyone's attention elsewhere as evidenced by the "complaints."

[loyalsister]

72. "Why don't they leave"

Instead, I ask why should they have to? What kind of decent government or culture would demand that a family who lives in a house they own outright leave and start over in an unfamiliar region paying rent or a mortgage?
They are supposed to change the way they get information when they have no access to broadband. "Look up the platform online" tells people they simply don't matter because they are not part of a modern era. Thinking of ourselves as superior because we have access to economic mobility and information not everyone has is why liberals have been labeled elitist.
Instead of demanding people train for new jobs when theirs is eliminated because of trade policies or transition to clean energy, we should have offered a pension. The sense of being left behind while progress happens everywhere else is not so far off base.

[llmart]

118. People have always had to be willing to be mobile...

to obtain work or live with the consequences of their decision not to.

The great migration North from the South when the auto industry was going gangbusters is a perfect example. Do you really think people back then wanted to leave their Southern roots and the history their families had there? Then the migration switched to Northerners who moved South leaving the "rust belt" because the auto companies didn't want to pay union wages and benefits any longer. What about the people who left Europe to come to the United States for a better life? What about the Mexicans who come here for jobs?

I've had to move three times in my working life so that my husband of the time would have a decent job. I hated picking up my school aged children and worried endlessly about what it would do to them (it made them more worldly, more flexible, and more intellectually curious), but I also knew that it would make them more accepting of change as adults.

I'm with the poster who said let's stop acting like we need to do endless studies of why these people believe falsehoods, because understanding the "why" isn't going to change them. There will always be a certain percentage of people like this in our society. They probably only make up for about 30% of the population.

[loyalsister]

131. People have also always resisted

Reasonably so, in my opinion. You might have a point if there were career paths or decent paying jobs waiting on the other side of migration. There aren't. A bachelor's degree isn't enough anymore. And people who tried that path are saddled with student hindering loan debt.

[llmart]

135. We are both probably speaking from different experiences.

Both of my grown children and the spouse of one of them only have bachelor's degrees and all three of them have good, high paying jobs. Two of them were able to stay in the area (for now) and one of them has moved several times to follow the good paying jobs. Because my children moved growing up they were more open to the fact that they may have to also. Not everyone who goes to college is saddled with student loan debt. I just retired from a public university where students worked for me and most of the ones who worked for me not only did work study but had part time jobs outside of work/study. My oldest had a couple of scholarships and took five years to complete his bachelors while at the same time doing any odd job on campus he could. He also worked at anything in high school and junior high and had to put the money away for college. We helped our daughter with tuition only but she went to a local college and lived at home. She worked five days a week as a grocery store cashier. She had to pay for her car and gasoline, any fees and her books.

The people who will not do what may be required to better their lot in life should not whine about the outcome if they haven't done everything they could. There are way too many stories out there of people who have overcome incredible odds to obtain what they want in life. I've done it myself. I grew up in a small town in a very large family with a father who was a poor provider. Two of the seven of us went on to make something of ourselves and the other five spent their lifetimes whining about how the world wouldn't conform to the way they wanted it to be.

[loyalsister]

136. I call bull

Not everyone is saddled with student debt, but enough people are that it is a national problem. You seem to be speaking from a position of privilege.
Many people who I went to high school with got stuck in jobs with little advancement opportunities. How much like you and yours do people have to be before they are worthy?

The talking points and claim of superiority are exactly the same used by conservatives when they want to demonize poor people in furtherance of their goals to gut Medicaid and other safety net programs. I take it personally because I have been the target of those cuts and judged as morally inferior based on my inability to meet their demands.

[llmart]

139. Apparently you didn't absorb my background...

For you to say I'm speaking from a position of privilege after I told you what my background is insults me. I GREW UP POOR IN A LARGE FAMILY IN A SMALL RURAL COMMUNITY. You apparently think I had something handed to me on a silver platter.

I think you don't want to see any other possibilities outside of what you've already established in your mind as the reason people just can't do anything at all about their lot in life.

[loyalsister]

140. Apparently you don't get what I meant by privilege

Opportunities to do what's you so condescendingly claim to have done are privilege. Not everyone is capable of working their way through school or getting scholarships. And, not everyone has a supportive family backing them up. To assume that everyone can do anything they want even without those things is way out of touch with any reality outside of your own.

[Wolf Frankula]

74. Several reasons.

They have been told for a century in books and movies that they are the 'real America'.

Cocooning. Most Americans live in cocoons. Admit it. There are liberal cocoons, conservative cocoons, black middle class cocoons, small town cocoons and more. They see people like themselves. They don't travel. That exists in big cities, too. I met adults in New York City who had never been off Manhattan Island.

Condescension and contempt from urbanites. People say, "I don't like that area. It's too white." Tell me. Would you say, "I don't like Detroit, it's too black." or "I don't like the Rio Grande valley. It's too Hispanic." If you wouldn't say the second too, don't say the first.

Ignorance. They get their information from TV and movies. A lot of Americans think everything south of the Rio Grande is like Mexico. I was born in Africa, in a modern hospital in a large city. When I tell Americans that, they ask, "Did you live in a treehouse like Tarzan? Were you scared living in the jungle with the lions and tigers?"

Wolf

[Orange Free State]

87. Cocoon is right.

I live in Appalachia, but am better educated and more traveled than most of my friends and neighbors. When I talk about retiring to Mexico, people actually gasp and start to shake, and say “Aren’t you afraid?” If I point out that the Mexican place I am looking at has a lower crime rate than our town, I am met with a blank stare. When I told friends I was going to Grand Bahama Island, the question was “But what will you EAT?” I am not kidding. Only a little over a third of Americans have a passport, and in Trumpistan it is probably way less.

These people are fed a steady diet of RW hatriot news and TV and that is all they know.

If we ever get control again, the fairness doctrine must come back. They can be reprogrammed. I wish that some rich Hollywood types would get together and form a company to buy the assets of IHeart Radio and make it less of a shit stirring hate factory.

[JI7]

92. All the fucking time they are attacking new york, san fracisco, hollywood etc

People talk about whiteness of oregon and Washington state also.

[Blue_Tires]

90. Can we please stop treating trips into red America like anthropological expeditions?

How many different ways are we going to research the same bottom line conclusion?

[JI7]

93. Until we can convince people these really are good people without bigotry

They had to vote for trump because liberals were mean to them or something.

[Skittles]

96. LOL

I hear you

[Blue_Tires]

99. Reminds me of this bit of comedy gold:

Link to tweet

[ehrnst]

108. K&R

[sandensea]

123. And not just in the U.S.

You see this in any number of countries where a White majority has been experiencing growing numbers of immigrants of color - be they North Africans moving to France, Iraqis moving to Sweden, or Bolivians moving to Argentina.

White voters in these countries, as a group (with many exceptions), almost always react the same: they become radicalized. They'll vote for anyone who seems to share their racial animus.

[FarCenter]

124. Farmers have always felt victimized by city people

There were many farmers. There were few railroads, millers, meat packers, dairy processors, etc. So farmers were always in the position of selling their "commodities" in a "free market". Except that the "free market" wasn't free. The farmer's were selling to an oligopsony which could manipulate the market and make them accept low prices. And to get their commodities to market, farmers had little choice of transportation - the expression "all the traffic will bear" comes from the extortionate freight rates set by the railroads.

On the other hand, when farmers went to buy machinery, building supplies, fuel, clothing, etc that were produced in the cities, they had to pay high prices for poor quality goods produced by very well paid city people.

There were attempts to organize famers in alliance with city labor, as with the Farmer's Union organization, and in Minnesota with the Farmer Labor Party, which eventually combined with the Democratic Party. It's is remembered only in the acronym DFL.

[Glaisne]

125. Thomas Frank wrote about this

in What's the Matter with Kansas? Written nearly 15 years ago and it's still relevant today. I recommend it.

[SpankMe]

132. "...many of these people havent been left behind; theyve chosen not to keep up."

This is the key point to all of this, IMO.

There was a segment on Marketplace on NPR where a bunch of guys in Pennsylvania were paying money to take a class on mine safety to get a certification in order to qualify for a handful of coal mining jobs that were being filled. They were long time unemployed and a little desperate. These jobs paid $13 an hour. They paid $200 for the training.

Down the hall in the same building, free classes were being offered that would have gotten them started on a certification for truck-driving jobs that STARTED at $20 an hour. There was high demand for these jobs in PA to the tune of thousands.

They refused to take the truck driving lessons and went for the dead-end, low-paying, old-school coal jobs because it was their heritage and truck driving would take them away from home for too long.

This lack of adaptability is a real problem. As long as these people consciously choose to live in the past and insist on voting one way until it's "fixed" - with their guns at the ready - we're going to have a problem.