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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThis Is What Life Without Retirement Savings Looks Like
Many seniors are stuck with lives of never-ending worka fate that could befall millions in the coming decades.
CORONA, Calif.Roberta Gordon never thought shed still be alive at age 76. She definitely didnt think shed still be working. But every Saturday, she goes down to the local grocery store and hands out samples, earning $50 a day, because she needs the money.
Im a working woman again, she told me, in the common room of the senior apartment complex where she now lives, here in Californias Inland Empire. Gordon has worked dozens of odd jobs throughout her lifeas a house cleaner, a home health aide, a telemarketer, a librarian, a fundraiserbut at many times in her life, she didnt have a steady job that paid into Social Security. She didnt receive a pension. And she definitely wasnt making enough to put aside money for retirement.
So now, at 76, she earns $915 a month through Social Security and through Supplemental Security Income, or SSI, a program for low-income seniors. Her rent, which she has had to cover solo since her roommate died in August, is $1,040 a month. Shes been taking on credit-card debt to cover the gap, and to pay for utilities, food, and other essentials. She often goes to a church food bank for supplies.
***
These initiatives can make the difference between having a homeand some semblance of stabilityand not. Roberta Gordon, in Corona, was barely scraping by when I talked to her. A few months later, she was much more stable. Why? Shed gotten off a wait list and been accepted into the housing-voucher program known as Section 8, which reduces the amount of income she has to put towards housing. Shes still working at 76, but she feels a little more secure now that she has more help. She knows, at least, that shes one of the lucky onesable, in her older years, to keep food on the table and a roof over her head.
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2018/02/pensions-safety-net-california/553970/
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)Skittles
(153,314 posts)just may not be true
and this is how things are NOW - imagine how they will be when the results of the continuing assault from the greedy old pig party becomes clear
Demovictory9
(32,498 posts)Skittles
(153,314 posts)raccoon
(31,136 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)And for those of us saddled with student loan debt, it will never be enough. Not only can we not save enough for retirement, they will garnish our SS wages to pay off what we haven't paid off yet.
Demovictory9
(32,498 posts)The Northwest Washington lifestyle trap: $500,000 in income and still cant save
Washington-based financial adviser Lori Atwood has untangled many a financial mystery for her 400 clients, like this gut-buster: How does a family of four drop $500 in one month at McDonalds?
Thats a lot of Big Macs and Filet-O-Fishes. But when you have a husband and wife with high-powered jobs working 10 or 12 hours a day, who feels like cooking?
Atwoods mission isnt all about writing wills, picking life or term insurance, and improving your credit score.
Its about controlling spending habits and learning to live within or ideally below ones means. She calls it trapped by the lifestyle.
People are stuck on this treadmill, working, working, working, said the 50-year-old University of Pennsylvania graduate. They make $250,000, $500,000 a year and they dont know where their money is going. They dont have any savings. It is true but ridiculous.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)it all goes to keeping up their lifestyle, children, debt, etc. They can't get ahead and they don't know how to scale down.
Welcome to DU!
Demovictory9
(32,498 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)Fuckin' Quickb books..
DUH !!!
D_Master81
(1,823 posts)if you make 250-500,000/year and cant save I dont feel sorry for you. You almost have to choose not to save money at that income. There will come a day when these people have a horrifying wake up call, because unless you have everything paid off, you cant live on social security alone even here in Indiana where the cost of living is relatively low.
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)Truth is it is more complicated than that. Many seniors did not have high paying stable jobs that had pensions. Many of the factories they started out working for went offshore when they were in their 50's making it nearly impossible to find a job that paid anywhere close to what they were making. Some took care of elderly parents, had kids who moved back home because they couldn't find work, or didn't want to or had a serious medical issues that drained even their retirement savings, this happens a lot by the way.
There will be a lot of seniors in the position of working into their 80's if they can find work.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,384 posts)as the song goes "a fool about my money, don't try to save".
Still, a guaranteed minimum income, covered by taxes, would see them through the next month. "The next month" may have been their financial horizon their entire lives. They still deserve a life with a roof, a meal, a doctor.
I'd be willing to give back my savings from Trump's new tax plan, in order to see a "Norway-style" minimum income for all.
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)fall into one or more of the categories above. Combine that with the lack of raises for anyone below the one percent and you have a person who has to keep working to eat and keep a roof over their heads. Are there bad money managers out there, yes, but fewer than you think. We work in education and have not had raises in 6 years. I agree with the guaranteed minimum income, but the rich people in power will never allow that since they won't even give their employees a raise.
Sophia4
(3,515 posts)And young people today are working without any retirement fund accumulation.
It's horrifying.
Social Security is the bare bottom of the money you need.
The lack of saving for retirement and the Republican attack on Social Security and retirement funds are the stories that the media never seems to cover.
Stock buyers, investors are getting money that employers should be putting into employee retirement funds. And employee stock investment accounts like 401(K)s do not fill the gap.
We need a national discussion on this topic.
Bradshaw3
(7,554 posts)People oftern are judgmental about those who are struggling for one reason or another but you gave several examples of what has happened to millions.
Johnny2X2X
(19,299 posts)Only the rich get to retire in their ideal future. Everyone else works until they drop dead. And theyve fooled the upper class into thinking theyre rich and this wont happen to them.
You need a lot more than you think you do to be able to really retire without fear. A few hundred grand can be gone in an instant if things go wrong.
The Genealogist
(4,723 posts)Luckily she had her and her husband's social security. She lived in subsidized housing the last 17 years of her life, and luckily qualified for commodities to supplement her groceries. She still needed to work, and did babysitting til she was about 82.
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)Unions are so vitally important. Decent Pay and Decent Benefits including Pensions.
shanti
(21,675 posts)I posted a video on FB of Bernie Sanders bigging up unions a few weeks ago. A RW cousin of mine (not a close one) made some kind of snarky remark about good companies not needing unions. I really lit into him about that and he did not respond.
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)regarding Unions. Now they were a very anti union company and he was brought up in the Mid South so his views from several aspects were shaped by those experiences. He stated, " that if companies treated their workers right, the Union should really only only need to plan the company picnic." We both understood very well however, that companies do not do so and pretty much agreed to find other topics to discuss.
BTW: I wouldn't bother trying to convince anyone on FB (or other online forums, this one included) of much of anything. It's like the old saying about wrestling a pig.....
shanti
(21,675 posts)He's still a FB "friend" because family, but I refuse to follow him and view his bullshit. Life's too short, and I don't need the negativity. It's sad, because we were both born and raised in the same city in OC CA. It's mother's side of the family and among all my cousins, my family was the only one who voted Dem. Most everyone else is pretty hardcore RW Xtian.
RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)Could I ask in what capacity you were discussing this with a Division Mgr? Just curious.
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)I did work in the grocery business but at another chain and in a completely different world as opposed to him.
RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)Thanks.
I was a Division Personnel Manager.
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)Without the workers coming together in solidarity to make them do it they won't, which is why they wanted the unions gone.
OldHippieChick
(2,434 posts)move to a State where housing is more affordable. I realize how difficult this can be if someone is leaving behind friends and family, but there are lots of places outside expensive California, Washington, Colorado and New York.
I sold my expensive Colorado home and moved to reasonable North Carolina where I was able to put enough down payment on my new house to make my payments less than 1/2 my SS check. I live frugally to the point where I rarely eat out and wear a sweater around the house in winter. But I paid for my move and still had money for new furniture. I also have a lawn service and housekeeper.
Currently I am receiving my husband's SS, but will change over to my own at 70 when mine will be 130%. Always, always, always take advantage of discounts. I even get a 10% discount at the grocery store.
SharonClark
(10,014 posts)where all their friends or family are.
Did you know anyone in NC when you choose to move to that state?
OldHippieChick
(2,434 posts)moving on soon. However, I lived for quite a while in Atlanta and have already had friends from there come to visit twice. I will spend time down there soon.
I have lived in several places in this country and it always takes a while to meet new people. As I said, I know how hard it is, but it's harder to not be able to afford room and board. Senior centers, churches, Democrats, volunteer organizations all provide opportunities to meet new people - not to mention new neighbors.
Kath2
(3,089 posts)I'm going to move to a more affordable state when I retire.
Still In Wisconsin
(4,450 posts)After putting three kids through school, paying off my wife's student loans, paying off my student loans, paying off the house, there's not going to be any money left for retirement. I wish it was otherwise, but this is my reality. I work for Scott Walker's "Right to Work" State of Wisconsin, and no way I'm being a burden to my girls. I know several others who have the same plan... days of comfortable retirements here are a thing of the past I'm afraid.
airplaneman
(1,244 posts)At first I thought about retiring and got excited. Then I realized I could never retire and got depressed. Then I realized I could kill myself and got excited again.
-Airplane
Still In Wisconsin
(4,450 posts)It's not dependent on the markets, it works the same in every state, and all you need to have saved is enough to buy a gun and one round of ammunition. I already have both, so I'm all set to go (literally) when the time comes.
D_Master81
(1,823 posts)Is this real? Or this all sarcasm. Cause i really hope your life plan isnt to work work work until everything is paid off and then put a bullet in your head. Please, tell thats not the plan.
Still In Wisconsin
(4,450 posts)I'll work to pay everything off, then as long as I can to be able to leave something to my kids. There's no way with the cost of college tuition that I can save for retirement on a state salary. The math simply doesn't work out. I don't expect to ever see any of the money I've paid into Social Security, and Walker is moving the state employees pension fund slowly but surely toward insolvency. I'd leave but I'm too old to get a job that pays as well. So yes, the plan is to work as long as I am physically and mentally able, then put a bullet in my head. It is what it is.
sammythecat
(3,568 posts)and why I plan to keep it.
Revanchist
(1,375 posts)The wife and dog are dead and no kids so the only one who would really mourn me are the folks. Once they are gone all bets are off.
radius777
(3,635 posts)Firstly, the value a man has to his family is not simply as provider (that is actually a conservative right wing belief) but as someone who his family loves as a person.. as a brother, husband, father, grandfather, etc.
Even if you don't care about yourself, the psychological damage that would be done to your family members would far outweigh any so-called financial 'burden' you might be. They would have to live with the trauma that their loved one committed suicide.
Still In Wisconsin
(4,450 posts)More likely, they will be in their 40's, with their own families to think about. They know I have always loved them and that wouldn't change. My wife? She knows of my plan, and she doesn't like it but she supports my right to make my own decisions about how long I live. I'll not make my loved ones destitute because I'm hanging around longer than my ability to provide for myself. They will be fine, and in a manner of speaking so will I.
Sure, I'd love the idyllic retirement, fishing with my grandchildren, taking them to ballgames, telling them stories, and all those things my grandfather did. But know what? Those days are GONE, especially if you're a red state public employee. Suicide isn't always wrong. THAT is a conservative value, and I don't hold it. And selfish? How? That makes no sense. Selfish would be remaining here and becoming a burden, and I simply won't do it. And cowardly? I promise you, when I pull that trigger, right before that .45 cal slug rips through my cranium, I will be feeling no fear whatsoever. More like pride in a life well-lived- and that's what I think of my life. Well-lived.
radius777
(3,635 posts)There's a big difference between cases where the patient is in a vegetative state (like Schiavo), untreatable pain, terminally ill, etc - where there is an ethical and moral justifcation for euthanasia - than a coward who simply is 'ashamed' at not having money and takes the easy (and violent) way out, in the process causing irreparable harm to his family, who will have to live with that psychological and emotional scar forever.
Man-up and seek help, my friend.
Still In Wisconsin
(4,450 posts)my family.
melman
(7,681 posts)It never is.
DLevine
(1,788 posts)based upon difficult circumstances a coward and to "man up" is not right. It never is.
It's what I would expect from right-wing assholes.
melman
(7,681 posts)DLevine
(1,788 posts)I am frustrated that a DUer is being shamed and belittled for something that is such a personal decision. You did not do that, but telling him his decision is never the right one assumes you know his situation better than he does.
DLevine
(1,788 posts)What a mean-spirited, heartless post.
DLevine
(1,788 posts)Your post is incredibly cruel and offensive.
Still In Wisconsin
(4,450 posts)To imply that I've not considered my family in having made this final decision is offensive. I appreciate your support immensely.
DLevine
(1,788 posts)Rhiannon12866
(206,934 posts)But not a day goes by that I don't miss him - think of something I need to ask him about a hundred things, just what he thinks about something or I want to share a joke or a memory. Some days are worse than others, and life obviously goes on, but he's never far from my thoughts. And, yes, he paid for my college, and I do appreciate it, but I'd trade that for just a little more time. He never got the chance to retire, I used to imagine what I could do for him when he got older, but that time never came. It's not an obsession, just something that weighs on my heart. I only had one Dad and I miss him an awful lot.
SergeStorms
(19,205 posts)aw shit, poor old woman...... You know that's what CONservatives are thinking and saying. Heartless bastards that they are! The vast majority of them are born half-way between third base and home-plate and they think they've hit a home run.
barbtries
(28,824 posts)i'm better off now than ever before in my life, but at 62 and only 10 years' worth of a 401k, and whatever ways the republicans find to fuck up my social security, the housing bubbles recurring all the time, i just don't see a way to retire, at least not and live comfortably.
maybe i should have remarried at some point. nah
kimbutgar
(21,285 posts)She was a little confused and had trouble looking up my account for a discount. Another worker helped me get the discount. I felt so sorry for this lady she should be enjoying life in a senior center sewing, dancing etc but here she was she needed that job to survive. It is a sorry situation now for a lot of seniors.
NBachers
(17,192 posts)He worked into his early 80's, until he passed away. I imagined that someday I would see him come walking down the aisle, and he would take my hand and lift me up to my great reward. In other words, I visualized my own death at work. And we know why.
azureblue
(2,158 posts)My wife and I are over 62, and we both get small SS checks and no pensions. I have a profound hearing loss and am disabled. Two years ago, she was diagnosed with stage 4 metastasized cancer and has been pretty much bedridden ever since, and needs a wheelchair when she has to go out.. We tried for SSI, but were mistakenly denied. When we got that mistake corrected, they made two others and denied SSI again. Meanwhile, I am her only care provider and I can't work, because she needs a lot of care and someone to get her to her appointments. So we have gone through all of our money and SSI couldn't care less. I get up in the morning and spend the day looking for money to pay the bills. If my wife beats cancer, we will spend the rest of our lives working just to pay bills and keep a roof over our heads.
It would be wonderful for any of those initiatives to pass. We are not the only people whose lives were wrecked by cancer. But we for effin sure know that will never happen under Trump and the GOP.
Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)$1000 a months from SS is good money if you have no rent or mortgage. I retired with no retirement savings at all and I'm doing fine.
So to you younger folks out there: Pay off your house! Do whatever you have to do to retire that mortgage before you retire yourself. Get free and clear and live without mortgage or rent.
ThoughtCriminal
(14,057 posts)I'm still a few years away from retiring. Sold very nice larger house when the housing market peaked and bought a smaller house with the profit in a cheaper town. The money that would be going into a mortgage has been going into retirement saving
But realize, that this is not a situation everybody can get into.
There is also the worry that no matter how much one saves, even with Medicare (endangered), there is always a significant risk that a medical condition or emergency could obliterate everything.
spinbaby
(15,095 posts)Im retired and just short of Medicare. Even without a mortgage, when I did my taxes, I had enough medical expenses to itemize and didnt even have any significant health problems this year. Health insurance at my age is expensive. Add in co-pays, dental work, and glasses and it adds up quick.
Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)OhNo-Really
(3,985 posts)If you use Medicaid, they sell off your assets when you die and keep the $$ as payback
caps are anger at Republicans
THIS IS HOW REPUBLICANS TAKE CARE OF HARD WORKING PEOPLE. THEY SUCK
samplegirl
(11,530 posts)Last edited Mon Mar 5, 2018, 09:41 AM - Edit history (1)
As many of us lost our 401k under Bush. No back up now.
I want get much and I just turned 60. My husband has to work till hes 66 1/2. His knees are shot. Feels he cant afford the time off to have them fixed. He lost his factory job at 55 after 31 years that sold out to a Japanese company. So went back to school with a 6,000.00 debt. Got a job with the state but working for a much lower wage. My job was eliminated last March as we were bought out. Who wants to hire me at age 60 anyway?? Other than Walmart...no thanks. Cant find anything decent so Im cleaning mopping an entire activity room and bathrooms. The next day Im exhausted because its labor intensive and my health is not all that great. So if you were lucky enough to retire before Bush got in. Chances are youd be o.k. The rest of us are on the work till you die plan.
haele
(12,701 posts)He's always been a good mathematician, so he's learning coding so he can work for a couple of hours a week or a week a month - as long as he can - on pick-up jobs breaking apps and code for start-up and mobile phone app companies in the area. I've got a decent paying job, but due to medical bills pre-ACA, a bit of unemployment between employers, and a few other unexpected expenses, the 401K is shot, and I'm starting to worry about my military pension and benefits (retired reservist; I won't start getting that pension - maybe $1500 a month - until late next year).
We really need the supplemental income now - the kids have pretty much bailed on growing up, and we're getting guardianship of the second granddaughter (age 2) as well as keeping the first (age 6) full time, so we're looking at becoming full time parents in our 50's and 60s. No retirement; the youngest might be ready for college when I'm 75 and spouse is looking at 70...
Luckily, the other set of grandparents are (grudgingly) helping with school and some activities, but I'm thinking we'll be on our own.
Haele
niyad
(113,980 posts)jobs.