Why is obeying the law scorned by so many?

[MineralMan]

There's a residential street I drive on frequently. It is the border between St. Paul, where I live, and Maplewood, just to the north. It's marked prominently as having a 30 MPH speed limit. The police in the City of Maplewood use it as a revenue generator and are very active in citing drivers for speeding on that street. Not wanting a ticket, and because I observe speed limits in general, I'm very careful not to exceed that limit, particularly on that speed trap street.

Yet, as often happens, and happened today, someone took umbrage at my driving, honking and gesturing from six inches behind my rear bumper. I was going 30 MPH on that very street. I just shrug stuff like that off, but wonder how many tickets that driver has collected in the past year. Who can afford that?

It seems to me sometimes that nobody pays attention to any laws these days. Why is that?

[soccer1]

1. Don't know....

but it happens everywhere with not following speed limits. Then they're on my tail trying to get me to speed up. Very annoying.

[alfredo]

5. They are in a hurry to get home so they can yell at their microwave because it is too slow.

[soccer1]

9. YEP

[spanone]

2. i tend to drive the limit too....it really pisses people off.

[freshwest]

3. It's infringing on their free-dumb to slow down and preserve life.

Or else you're surrounded by libertarians. I've found this to be normal behavior for the 'Screw you, I got mine' set. And their time is more important than anything. ME ME ME!

[alfredo]

4. We take our rules of behavior from our leaders.

If the rich and powerful can do as they wish without repercussions, why not us?

[MineralMan]

8. I suppose that's possible, but I doubt that's the reason, really.

I'm not sure that the logic flows that way when it comes to routine behaviors.

[Curtland1015]

6. Nothing pisses people off more than driving the posted speed limit.

I've had this discussion with my wife several times.

Once, she got somewhere late and she was mad because she was driving behind a guy going 5 miles below the speed limit.

She said, "The LEAST the can do is go the speed limit!"

So I say, "Yeah, that's tr... wait no, the MOST they can do is go the speed limit! That's why it's the limit!"

[MineralMan]

10. Yes, I know. That's what the thread is about.

I'm ticket free since the time I began driving in 1961. That has saved me a bunch of money, and probably avoided other problems, too. I do drive the speed limit. On surface streets with just one lane, I simply drive the speed limit. On freeways with multiple lanes, I keep to the right, and drive the speed limit. If I overtake a car, I briefly move to the left, and then return to the right lane. But, I drive the speed limit. It saves gas, and I still get where I'm going just fine.

So, why is it such a problem for people that some people follow the traffic laws? What is it about that that makes them angry? I can see being annoyed if someone is in the left lane driving at the posted speed when traffic is generally moving faster, but otherwise, I don't get it.

[MineralMan]

11. To avoid getting places late, I leave early.

Most times, I arrive before the time I'm supposed to be there, which is fine. I'll grab a cup of coffee at the Starbucks and be all set for whatever meeting I'm going to or event I'm attending. I don't see the issue, really.

If I'm meeting a client at a certain time, I plan to arrive ten minutes early. That gives me time to get my thoughts and whatever papers I'm using together. It also compensates for any delays on the way.

[The Straight Story]

7. Ban cars, higher tax on gas, etc - problem solved (nt)

[aikoaiko]

12. You'll like this video

Last edited Wed Jul 25, 2012, 06:11 PM - Edit history (1)

The sound is a bit poor and you have to watch a 15 sec advert, but the 3 min video is an interesting documentation of what happens when you drive the speed limit in Atlanta.

&feature=relmfu

[Ineeda]

13. I see this all the time.

Well rules, really, more than laws. In a week or less I see people ignoring: the no cell phones rules in certain venues or during certain events, the no dogs on the beach ordinances, the no watering of lawns except at certain times of certain days ordinances, checking out large orders in the ten items or less line, not picking up their dog's poo, unauthorized handicapped parking. On and on. Small things, maybe, but cumulatively this shows a widespread lack of respect. Drives me nuts. And when people are challenged, you get a big 'mind your own business' attitude. Dammit, it is my business if it's my lawn your dog is fouling, or I'm standing behind you with a quart of milk, or your dog runs across my beach towel and pees on my cooler.

[KatyMan]

18. RE the checkout line

I've spoken up a few times about that, when someone has a bunch of stuff (like 20 items in a 10 item line) I'll say out loud in their direction "Can you not read or can you not count?". It takes some courage (I'm a weenie in this regard), but I can sometimes get up the nerve to do it...

[smirkymonkey]

32. There is a name for people like that....

they're called "Expressholes". Just another example of Me, Me, Me Entitleism.

[blueamy66]

52. I wanted to say something the other day to a couple in the express line, but

they were Hispanic and speaking Spanish and thought that they wouldn't understand my English or my broken Spanish.

I just left and joined another line and got out sooner than they did.

[agent46]

14. New American Normal

America is a free for all. The new consensus seems to be - it's all good if you can get away with it.

[Siwsan]

15. I had that happen, once. The instant they could, the sped around me, straight into a speed trap

I waved, as I drove by.

[closeupready]

17. Haha, nice.

[hfojvt]

55. what I used to like just as much

somebody would blow past me, and there would be a red light half a mile ahead. They get to the red light and sit and I get there just before it turns green and zip right past them in the right lane. Heck a few weeks back somebody passed me in a no passing zone, and we drove three miles through Platte City to end up at the same stoplight at the same time. I wanted to have some way to tell the guy, "hey doofus, check it out, you did not get here any faster than I did."

But people hate driving behind me, because I always take my foot off the gas well before the stop sign or red light. Which you are not supposed to do, I guess, because he who gets to the red light first- wins!!

[IDemo]

16. Many people nowadays feel that 'speed limit' refers to the slowest permissible speed

and if the so-called 'prevailing speed' is 20mph (or more) higher, you'd best keep up or get out of the way. I generally drive ~5mph faster than the limit and let the traffic passing me chum the waters for any motorcycle cops waiting ahead.

[unblock]

19. what amazes me is the dangerous, illegal behavior others think is justified when you drive the limit

yes, people get annoyed, sometimes really pissed, but it amazes me that they don't just suck it up and curse inside their mobile cocoon.

people tailgate like RIGHT UP ON YOUR ASS tailgating.

people speed and i mean 60 in a 35 in order to pass on the wrong side of the double yellow line.

i've even seen people do over 45 in a 15(!) we have a short road, maybe half a mile tops, around here that's curvy and hilly and thick with foliage right up next to the road (no sidewalk, no curb). lots of hidden driveways and limited sight distance. at some point they lowered the limit from 25 to 15 and put in a few speed humps. even when i've caught myself going 25, i *still* get overtaken on the wrong side. unbelievably dangerous, they could easily get into a head-on collision. seriously, they can't wait literally 60 seconds or so for me to reach the end of the road where i can safely pull over to let them pass.

and of course they yell at me as they pass, instead of looking for oncoming traffic!

[NNN0LHI]

20. How do you know it was the speed you were driving that was pissing the other driver off?

Maybe he just didn't like your looks or something?

Or thought you were someone else?

I always go the speed limit and have never experienced anything like what you are describing.

Don

[dionysus]

25. happens to me all the time, and i'm doing 5 over. they tailgate you, flicking the high beams, raging

it's crazy

[hunter]

44. When they flick their high beams at me I flick my brake lights back.

The back bumper on my old car is long trashed and I don't give a damn. Go ahead hit me. Make my day. Your $800 bumper ornaments against my $800 car...

Seriously, why should I exceed the speed limit for fools?

On multi-lane highways I stay out of their way, and on twisty mountain roads I'll pull over to let them pass when it's safe, but other than that I don't yield to impatient assholes.

A patient asshole like myself wins every time.

[kestrel91316]

60. [phone]

[kestrel91316]

59. Must be nice to live where everybody doesn't suffer from "get out of my way I'm in a hurry" disease.

[TwilightGardener]

21. My street is 30 mph. I have had people zip around me--on a RESIDENTIAL street, complete

with kids waiting for the bus and retirees walking their dogs--as if it was a highway, because I drove the speed limit.

[One_Life_To_Give]

22. Glorification of Self over Society

Streets are a public good many of us need to use to get around. Since we all have to play in this same sandbox there needs to be some give and take. Laws provide a framework within which we judge how our actions comply with the overall goal of us all playing nicely in the sandbox together.

Unfortunately far too many people seem to feel that the streets are their exclusive place to do exactly what they want to do. Without regard to how their own actions affect everyone else in and around that sandbox.

[progressoid]

23. There is a solution for that...

[MineralMan]

24. Now, that's funny!

[SickOfTheOnePct]

26. That happens to me as well

Admittedly, I'm a speeder on the Capital Beltway, but not in neighborhoods.

There is a street leading to my neighborhood that doesn't have any houses on the street, but lots of townhomes set back in cul-de-sacs and small streets. Speed limit is 25, and within a week of moving here, I got a ticket. Lesson learned.

Two or three years ago, they added a new sign: "$200 additional fine for speeding". I don't go a lick over 25 on that stretch of road, so when I get someone acting like an ass behind me, I pull to the shoulder to let them by.

So far, I've been rewarded one time with going around the curve to see the ass in question pulled over, receiving a ticket. Made my day.

[orpupilofnature57]

27. Like during the depression ,contempt for the law

Last edited Wed Jul 25, 2012, 09:15 PM - Edit history (1)

is a feeling of being Victimized as opposed to Protected ,and piddly pleasures of being above the law aren't just for the 1% or Friends and families of cops.

[cbrer]

28. That is the example set for us by our leaders

And individuals from groups we admire. Politics, sports, business... Do anything you can to get ahead.

The fact that much of our citizenry springs from a segment of the population that thumbed their collective noses at British law may have influenced that trend in development.

[RebelOne]

29. The speed limit on the street where I live is 35 mph.

I was driving one day not paying attention to the speed limit and a motorcycle cop stopped me. I was fortunate that he did not give me a ticket, just a verbal warning. Now, I watch my speedometer on that road. Some idiots will speed up the road and tailgate me, and I hope some day that cop will get them. He may not go so easy on them.

[jp11]

30. Habit.

Most people speed and when you are forced to deal with someone who does the limit or worse, less than that, it drives most people nuts.

I know a few pointed out that the limit is the 'max' you can do but it is also the unwritten expectation, police can and do ticket people for driving TOO SLOW. Will they do it for you doing 20 in a 25mph probably not unless they really don't like you or need to write a ticket but I think it is common courtesy to AT least go close to the limit, there really isn't a NEED to do 10-15 in a 25mph zone barring some special circumstance which don't include mucking about on your phone or the like.

Also many border streets are treated as links to get from one area to another, which is why I think they are popular speed traps to get non-locals speeding through who are unaware of the traps.


FTR: I drive no more than 5-10 MPH over the speed limit depending on the kind of road, traffic and weather conditions. I can't help driving close to the limit or the actual limit when someone rolls up on my bumper or as I enter a speed trap zone.

[Warren Stupidity]

31. OK so there are two sets of roads, and they are not the same at all.

1. local roads - drive the limit or lower, be careful about animals, children, walkers, bikers, reduce speed as needed to keep everyone safe.

2. limited access highways - keep your slow moving obnoxious ass over on the right or else keep up with the flow, even then, if there is a vehicle approaching from behind at a higher rate of speed, and you are in the left most lane - move your obnoxious slow moving ass over to the right.

[MineralMan]

33. That's just what I do, as described in my post.

Further, my ass is old, but I do not consider it obnoxious, since I keep it covered in public places.

[Warren Stupidity]

35. no actually you do not address the two classes of roads.

on the highways, obnoxious slow ass drivers are a danger to themselves and others.

[MineralMan]

36. Please see #10 in this thread, where I do exactly that.

Thank you.

[kestrel91316]

62. Driving the speed limit is anything but "slow". It's 1 mph less than illegal speeding.

If you don't like people driving the speed limit, you need to take a Xanax and see a shrink.

[COLGATE4]

43. You're 100% correct on both counts.

I wish we had the same type of 'stay right unless to pass' laws (enforced) that they do on German autobahns. Most frustration on limited access highways comes from having all 2 or 3 lanes bottled up by folks chugging alone abreast of one another at 65 MPH. At least 50% of the time there is at least one or more 'left lane squatter' blocking the passing lane while chatting on the cel phone.

[Zoeisright]

67. So you endorse breaking the law, huh?

Your obnoxious fast-moving ass is the cause of many accidents, and increases the severity of accidents when they do happen.

Nice behavior.

[Warren Stupidity]

69. In many states failure to keep to the right except when passing is

Breaking the law. It results in faster traffic having to pass on the right, and that indeed causes accidents. Just keep to the right. Is that really too much to ask?

Try your bullshit in europe, actually don't.

[sadbear]

34. We all have a lot of consuming to do...

consume food, consume TV, consume electronic gadgets, consume Internet, consume, consume, consume, and we don't have time to wait on your slow ass.

[MindPilot]

37. Maybe that limit is too low

Many studies have shown (go to motorists.org for references) that when speed limits are set based on the speeds that most people people actually drive in a particular area, (surprise!) compliance goes up, accidents go down and even the speeders are not speeding as much.

Downside is that cops don't get to extort money from motorists to finance their paramilitary toys.

[MineralMan]

39. No, actually it is not. The street is residential in nature,

and passes by a school, as well. In Minnesota, the standard for residential streets is 30 MPH. Mixed residential and commercial streets with one lane in each direction are usually 35 mph. Surface streets in completely commercial areas are generally 40, if they are two or more lanes on both sides. A few multilane streets with no residential or commercial driveways are marked at 45 MPH. When they enter a zone where driveways are present, the speed goes down to 40 MPH.

Minnesota is pretty good about maintaining standards for these things, and drivers with any experience at all know what the limit is, even without signs. That doesn't mean they obey those limits, though.

[MindPilot]

42. On a fully residential street, I think 30 is too fast.

But out on the freeway, 65 is ridiculously slow.

[Romulox]

46. *You* called it a "speed trap". Sounds like the detail change as is convenient. nt

[4th law of robotics]

38. As you say, it's a speed trap

people generally are ok with laws that make sense.

Stupid or cynical laws generally are met with scorn.

[Bluenorthwest]

40. The law says my family is not a family, thus the law is without reason or standing in any area

the law is a mindless, ignorant old jerk with 'bad information' spreading lies and picking my pocket using bigotry as an excuse.
Why would anyone respect any body of law that is clearly irrational, bigoted, unfair and without any positive results? The law is a joke told by a yammering idiot, it is made up by dolts to protect their own stupidity and viciousness. The desire to conform to such nonsense is of course, something the right wing always demands.
People across the nation should stand up and start rejecting the rule of law, as it is currently a farce about selective enforcement, and selective enforcement of law is far worse than actual lawlessness. Selective enforcement leads to selective compliance, and that's just how it is.

[tammywammy]

41. The street heading to my neighborhood is 4 lanes

A median on part and a turn lane on the rest, and filled with potholes and dips. It needs to be resurfaced badly and the speed limit is 40. I go 40, because of the dips and such.

One day I was heading home and there was like 6 or 8 cars heading my direction and there was one asshole tailgating people changing lanes/cutting people off, you get the drift. Well the reason everyone was going 40, there was a cop also in the pack like 3 cars ahead of me. The asshole gets to the front and starts speeding and I smiled when I saw those police lights turn on.

I learned a long time ago that the extra 5 over or whatever doesn't really get you anywhere faster. And if I'm running late somewhere, I just call ahead and let them know, instead of thinking that going 50 in a 40 will really catch me up.

People just need to not be in such a hurry. It's also bad at the grocery store when they're busy. People huff and puff, but that's not going to make the line go any faster either.

[Romulox]

45. Passive aggression is a like a dance--it takes two. nt

[Sirveri]

47. I used to speed on the freeways. Like the really desolate spaces.

Now I just relax and go the limits, too many tickets. Though there really doesn't need to even be a speed limit on a lot of those barren stretches. You're driving up I-5 and the only thing for you to hit is a pile of dirt or an orchard then who really cares if you're going 70 or 100 Mph.

Same issue with other stuff like drug use and stuff that really isn't any business of my neighbors.

[Trillo]

48. Because some people have essentially been trained to break the laws?

The name of this phenomenon could be what animal trainers call, "unintentional training", though with people, whether it is unintentional has been debated.

[Tom Ripley]

49. They want you to speed up, be picked off by the cops, and then they can continue...

on their merry way while the cop is occupied with writing your ticket.

[TheManInTheMac]

50. I had a girlfriend once who once said of a driver in front of her,

"He's barely going the speed limit!" I don't think she ever understood why I thought that was funny.

[backscatter712]

51. When I'm driving, I frequently use impatient, speeding drivers as radar bait.

If you're going to act like a douchebag, tailgate me and want around me, sure, by all means, go around me - better for me!

Then you can spring the speedtrap instead of me!

Other people have refered to this tactic as "rabbiting" - let the douchebag driver go around you, match speeds with him and follow him a couple hundred yards of distance, and use him as a "rabbit" to make sure you have time to spot the cop, and slow down, while the douchebag you're using as the rabbit gets all the tickets.

Take the point!

[Populist_Prole]

58. I've successfully done that a few times

I normally do no more than 3 to 5 MPH over the limit, but that's never enough for the impatient types. For some reason, they are reluctant to pass me but instead stay right behind me and try to "intimidate" me into going faster. I'll gradually slow down slightly to the speed limit till where I know the places cops usually sit, and by then they get all pissed off and slingshot around me ( without signalling of course ) and look like crazed speed demons even without radar. On go the cop car lights, and the show begins...........

Another thing that happens is almost every day is when we turn off a narrow 35 mph two lane road into my employers parking lots. I take the first right turn and invariably, you get these impatient jerks that are:

1) Mad I'm only doing 35-38 MPH

2) Slowing down and signalling like ( in their eyes ) a goody two shoes to make the right turn

They then angrily FLY around me to the left going completely over the double yellow line into the oncoming lane as I make the turn. It happens to a lot of people who do as I do and we comapre notes and frustrations as well.

Now and then a cop waits there, and when they see that happen, man they go after those people like they're public enemy #1. I'll hear them complain at work about how they got pulled over blah blah blah. They're usually the same loudmouth belligerent rednecks in their massive pickup trucks every time.

[slackmaster]

53. It's simian territorial behavior

[riderinthestorm]

54. Even on DU, breaking the law is seen as okay and justified. Like MJ use,

speeding, our exploits with underage drinking, swimming in restricted quarries, joining the mile high club, visiting a prostitute... shit I could go on and on about some DU illegal exploits we've laugh over.

I think breaking the rules is a common human phenomenon. We're wired for it. We think "our" rule breaking is justified, okay, not so bad, even necessary at times.

[kestrel91316]

63. Comparing private MJ use to speeding on public thoroughfares is false equivalency of the worst sort.

When I use medical MJ in the privacy of my own home I endanger exactly NO ONE. When I speed on public thoroughfares I endanger everyone on the road, and plenty of folks OFF the road, too.

[riderinthestorm]

64. Where its illegal, its illegal. The OP was about folks who aren't "obeying the law"

and I read his OP as using speeding as an example.

DUers love to regale each other with illegal exploits like some of the ones I've listed. You live in CA where medical MJ is legal. I live in IL where its illegal in all forms. Some states require helmets of motorcycle riders and some don't. So if its an example that's not applicable to your state, don't read too much into it.

DUers are typical Americans who revel in their illegal exploits that was my bigger point. Having a convo over which law breaking is "worse" didn't seem to be the OP's issue and is a debate I really don't want to get into at the moment, especially MJ.

[hfojvt]

56. because we're Americans

and we only follow the law when we might get caught.

A couple of truck drivers were going down the highway and saw a sign that said "low bridge 16 feet high". So they stopped ahead of it and measured their truck. It was 19 feet high. Just to be sure the sign wasn't wrong, they measured the bridge. Yep, it was 16 feet high. Measured their truck again 19 feet. Then one of them says "I don't see any cops. let's go for it."

I bet that many of us have been raised by parents who didn't respect the law, and we also grew up listening to Brownsville Station.

"Teacher, don't you fill me up with your rules"

&feature=related

[kestrel91316]

57. Because it's a "free country" and that means we are free to do anything we damned well want.

[RebelOne]

61. The speed limit on my street is 35 mph.

I forgot about that one day and was stopped by a motorcycle cop a few weeks ago. Fortunately he just let go with only a verbal warning. I now watch my speed no matter the idiot tailgating me. I hope he or she is stopped by that same cop who may not be so lenient.

[backscatter712]

65. Like I posted upthread, if a douchebag is tailgating you, let him pass and use him as radar bait!

Learn the art of avoiding tickets through the use of rabbits!

[Zoeisright]

66. It's really bad on the roads.

I love how in Minnesota we raised the speed limit to 70 because "everyone is already going faster than 65", the old limit.

Now everyone goes 80. Are we going to raise the limit again??

The lack of logical reasoning skills is simply astounding.

[salin]

68. It may be a nonsequitor - but Romney's position per taxes is an example

he said something to the effect that if he didn't take every tax advantage/shelter and paid more taxes then he had to minimally pay (after all the deductions and tax shelters) that he would not be qualified (per the electorate) to run for president. Er.... crickets... point being regardless of income level we seem to be living in a time and place where avoiding following the intent of the law, is lauded.

[riderinthestorm]

70. Oh man, great point. Mitt's tax evasion is a classic example of scorning the law

Bingo.

[salin]

71. Rather puts into question the idea of a "good citizen"

if he doesn't choose to be a good citizen, bully for him. If he skirts the law but barely stays within it, bully for him. We don't know (because the disclosure is being avoided) whether or not he crossed legal lines (but it doesn't look good.) What is telling about his suggest that says - in essence - that if I paid my actual obligation, rather than the least obligation possible after my high paid accountants and cpas doe their work to find ways to shelter y money than by paying my actual obligation I would disqualify myself for running for president.

In Romney's message: Skirting the law as close as one can (and acting as if one may not have stayed on the legal side, by not disclosing more), is a virtue. Indeed not doing so would suggest lack of qualification to run for president.

Er.. Excuse me?

Anyone think that this guy has any respect for the Constitution? That he has any respect for anything except better positioning himself for making more money at the expense of others? Yikes.