To my friends who think the Dems caved, what outcome were you hoping for from the shutdown?

[EffieBlack]

How did you want this to play out?

[Voltaire2]

1. Republics Caved. Dreamers Saved. NT.

[Eliot Rosewater]

2. Cave over shutting down that which they WANT to shut down in the first place?

[Phoenix61]

3. That would have been nice

but why would the repubs cave? They have the majority.

[Sophia4]

6. Because they are in charge of the government and would be blamed when it didn't

function.

[Demsrule86]

14. We were being blamed not then...it was worse than that with DACA vs CHIP.

I am glad we got CHIP...the GOP didn't want to fund it.

[Sophia4]

5. I'm with you, Voltaire 2. Republicans caved. Dreamers saved.

That's the only just outcome.

[Atticus]

22. Agree. nt

[angrychair]

4. If your going to commit

In an election year, commit. Dont commit on Friday and give into republicans on Monday for a week less and a “promise” to talk about DACA from a group that has literally broken every promise ever made on DACA/immigration for years...it was why Obama did what he did with DACA in the first place.

Now, in retrospect, I think, given this deal, they should have taken the 4 week CR with the 6 year CHIP and kept their powder dry until that CR expired. I think We overplayed our hand in retrospect.

[EffieBlack]

8. But what outcome did you want?

A 4 week CR isn't an outcome - it's a tactic. What would you have wanted them to get out of it?

[angrychair]

21. Respectfully

I wanted nothing different than the expressed goal of Democratic leadership: to force action on DACA/immigration reform.
While this may or may not force action remains to be seen.

That said the whole thing was arraigned by republicans to force this issue of shutdown, from the artificial DACA expiration to tying CHIP to the CR.

[EffieBlack]

26. There's more than one way to force action

[withoutapaddle]

7. Dreamers safe, immediate cease and desist in arresting and terrorizing these families.

[Demsrule86]

15. How?

[withoutapaddle]

23. I truly wish I had the answer.

I dare say that exiling hundreds of thousands of people from their families and communities is a crime against humanity. To those people, this is not a matter of political bargaining, but a matter of extreme emergency.
Part of me wants every representative with a soul to lock hands and refuse to move on anything until these people are officially safe from ICE. I am naive and I am also a dreamer.
And I truly wish I had the answer.

[TCJ70]

9. More than McConnels word. Thats for sure.

Republicans were keeping the government closed because they didn’t want to help people trafficked into this country against their will. This should have been an easy win for us. We had CHIP settled on Friday...and now we have...what?

[EffieBlack]

11. I'm not asking what you DON'T want

What outcome did you want?

If they didn't end the shutdown, what are you hoping the result would have been?

[TCJ70]

13. Im of the opinion that it would have been simple to get a DACA solution here...

...and nothing good will come of this short term extension. All it takes is a little cut-throat framing that the Democrats in power never engage in.

[Demsrule86]

16. How would you have gotten a DACA solution...and when CHIP kids began dying these are sick kids

during the shutdown...what do you think would have happened...how. We know you don't like the dea but what would you have done specifically.

[EffieBlack]

17. Please bee specific - how were they to get the votes they needed?

Which Republican senators could they have flipped and how would they have done it?

And if you think they could get the votes with the government shut down, why couldn't they get those votes with the government running, with the threat of another shutdown hanging over their heads or during the next shutdown?

It's easy to say "they should have passed a bill" but unless you game out exactly how that would work, you're just engaging in empty second-guessing.

[Demsrule86]

19. No specifics on how...and we could have lost CHIP had the shutdown proceeded...and kids would die.

The funding was gone in many states...picture the ads..".American kids dying as Democrats insist on legislation to legalize illegals". Jesus, we would have been destroyed. We had no good options and you have not come up with one that I have seen either.

[Nanjeanne]

10. The bipartisan Graham Durbin bill passed

[EffieBlack]

12. How would they have gotten the 60 votes they needed for that during the shutdown

[Nanjeanne]

24. It was the WH that squashed the deal. Hilding

firm might have forced the issue. It’s negotiation.

[EffieBlack]

27. Holding firm "might" have forced the issue. But you don't know that it would

And what exactly do you mean by "force" the issue?

[Nanjeanne]

29. You are right. We dont know. And we never will. But the OP asked the question so

I answered. By force the issue — someone blinked. Perhaps if this went on more than 3 days, it would have been the WH or the Rs who felt they needed to do more to bring the Dems to the vote. But we won’t know now. Let’s see what happens in three weeks when the game gets played again. I can’t imagine the Rs are feeling worried. The Ds have nothing more to offer. Rs are going to claim CHIP as their victory.

[EffieBlack]

30. I'm not sure if time would have forced the WH and Rs to blink

They're in control and hold many more of the cards that the Dems have. They're in a much better position to wait the Dems out. Not only do they have much more power, they also lie with straight faces and have no shame. And over the weekend, it started to become clear that it was working - even though the Republicans were almost solely responsible for the shutdown, the media and public were also blaming the Democrats. The longer the shutdown continued, the more the Dems were going to get blamed and the less leverage they had.

Under these circumstances, the Dems can't use brute force - they have to use strategy and require a certain amount of nimbleness. That's what I think happened today. They read the situation and made a strategic adjustment.

The Dems will have as much - and probably more - to offer in a shutdown on February 8 as they did this morning. If McConnell keeps his word, we get a DACA bill. If he reneges, he's exposed as a liar and the Democrats will be in a better position when they shut down the government.

And, fyi, the Republicans would claim CHIP as their victory no matter what. And I really don't care who claims it - I'm just glad that kids are now getting their healthcare.

[Demsrule86]

18. How do you do that during a shutdown?

[mcar]

20. Which McConnell wouldn't bring to the floor

How can it pass without a vote? Then what in the House?

[Nanjeanne]

25. Oh so he will bring to the floor something that

Dems don’t want. Excellent negotiation.

[EffieBlack]

28. if that happens, the Dems can shut the government down again

And this time, not only get more support, but have a much cleaner, clearer issue - DACA only - not muddled as last weekend's shutdown was.

No one has yet explained what harm comes from trying to negotiate a favorable outcome while retaining the ability to shut everything down again if they don't get it.