I may be getting in over my head with this post, but here goes.

[Atticus]

Last edited Fri Dec 29, 2017, 07:39 PM - Edit history (2)

I recall hearing discussion and, I believe, reading here that we should expect anything from the GOP in the 2016 elections because they were facing an "existential threat". If they did not maintain control of the Congress and win the White House, the argument went, they would also lose the Supreme Court Majority and, in effect, cease to exist as a viable political party. Cliches like "backs to the wall" and "do or die" were often used to emphasize the nature and extent of the desperation that would drive the Republicans to cut any corner, ignore any rules and abandon all "norms" in their single-minded drive to win at all costs.

Though I do not like the images that pop into my head or the alternatives which seem to demand consideration when I ask this, nonetheless: are we---Democrats, liberals, thinking independents and even rational Republicans---not facing our own "existential threat"? And, is it not just possible that the Trumpist game plan depends not only on their abandonment of previously acknowledged "rules" but, also, on our steadfast adherence to them? Isn't this what "bringing a knife to a gunfight" is all about?

Our Founding Fathers committed felonies by the dozens in order to free us from England. The fights to abolish slavery, gain gender equality and enable all of us to vote were often just that---fights. From Paul Revere to Sojourner Truth to Rosa Parks to Harvey Milk---law breakers all.

We are SUPPOSED to obey all laws, respect our elected leaders, go to work every day, pay our taxes and accept election results even when we have every reason to doubt their legitimacy.

We are NOT SUPPOSED to block traffic, go on strike, block entrances to government buildings, interrupt hearings or press conferences, spray graffiti or, in just about any way, disrespect this administration.

I think it is time to say "to hell with the way things OUGHT to be done" and move on to consider "What will actually get results within a time frame that matters"? What will work TODAY? Not yesterday. Not if things were the way they ought to be. What will work NOW, in this unique crisis?

I have at least some answers to those questions and I intend to live with them. For what should be obvious reasons, I will not detail them here. Instead, I simply ask that you consider the questions I posed above and the one posed by officer Malloy in The Untouchables: "What are you prepared to do?"

[triron]

1. Very thought provoking.

What action might be taken?

[Eliot Rosewater]

2. If Mueller isnt allowed to do his thing, at a MINIMUM 150 million of us need to be in the

streets, on a general strike, until reinstated.

MINIMUM

Anything less means we dont care.

The problem is unless most of us are willing to do this, YOU breaking the law or ME will just mean we go to jail.

So there is that.

[mreilly]

6. Striking is never going to take off....

... with all due respect, I believe very few people are going to tell their employers: "I'm not coming into work until Donald Trump is gone/Congress does something about him firing Mueller/whatever issue I want."

I work in IT and have a great relationship with my boss. He considers me his right-hand man. He's ex-Army Infantry and if I said: "Boss, I'm striking," he would politely say: "Thanks for all your hard work. If you won't come into the office, you don't have to, but I'll find someone who will."

I have a wife and 3 kids. And that's how the system controls us. It's just like the Grapes of Wrath. They know we care about our loved ones about all else and will do anything to fend for them. It sucks how they leverage that and use us, but it works.

I'm not striking and losing my livelihood to make a point. My wife and kids and I need to eat, and have a roof over our heads. Hell, my wife would be extremely pissed if I did this and I wouldn't blame her. My job is to put food on the table.

Boycotts work better. If we target pro-Trump businesses we can hurt them.

[Eliot Rosewater]

7. And yet there is no other way to do it. If trump is allowed to subvert the constitution, the law &

democracy with no serious consequences, you will have no job to go to eventually.

I suppose winning the next election is one way to avoid losing your job and everything, but who says they will count your vote?

KGB doesnt want to count your vote.

But I totally get your point.

[Wiseman32218]

11. I feel your pain and agree with the boycott idea!!

[mreilly]

3. You make some good points....

I live in the bluest of blue states (Massachusetts) and I have no need to call my Senators or House reps to urge them to work against Trump since they're already on it. I admit I should call them more to thank them but I digress...

I see a lot of posts here along the lines of "How much longer are we supposed to put up with this shit?" Well, violence is out of the question. We don't just get to march to the White House and tell Trump: "GET OUT!" Legally we have to put up with it until January 20, 2021 if he elects not to run again/is defeated, and January 20, 2025 if he is re-elected or the election is stolen.

Marching? We can march all we want, and that sends a message to like-minded folks that we're standing together. I don't discount the value of it, but I do feel the GOP just sneers and ignores it. It doesn't change their minds in any way. They don't care what "those liberals" are up to.

We have to focus on staying on the message, focusing on the undecideds and independents. I won't waste a moment of my time talking to or debating a Trump supporter other than to ridicule them with a targeted dig and then block/ignore them when they start screeching the usual libtard/snowflake/safe space/fake news crap which they ALL repeat as part of their brainwashed hive mentality.

Above all else, we CANNOT become apathetic and listless, nor just give up and tune out politics because it's too much. The sniveling piece of shit in the White House is hoping that with his constant and endless litany of crying and lies you will just get fed up and go take up knitting, kayaking or bird-watching instead. While it's important to do those things to keep your peace of mind, we CANNOT disengage nor let them get away with anything by allowing them to sweep their crap under the rug and continue to hurl whines about Obama and Hillary to deflect from the Crybaby-in-Chief.

[Atticus]

4. January 20, 2021 is WAY too late. We will have lost our democracy, our way of life and our

children's futures if Trump is not stopped before then. It is unreasonable to expect people to stay passionately "focused" for 3 or 7 more years. If Trump completes his first term, he may just be "president for life" and then hand off to one of his pups.

[mreilly]

5. I understand completely but what do you recommend?

He needs to go NOW. He needed to be gone on January 20, 2017. But what are our options? All we can do is maintain our base and recruit allies to ensure we GOTV in 2018 and 2020.

My hopes are pinned on Mueller. Otherwise, Dems take the House and Senate in 2018 and move towards impeachment. At the very least they can tie his hands as he struggles for political survival.

[Atticus]

9. As I stated in the OP, I have my answers as to what I am prepared to do. I suspect everyone will

have their own answers, but the point is that all of us can do SOMETHING to oppose EVERYTHING this fascist maniac tries.

I must add that your phrase "All we can do---" reminds me of a Churchill quote: "It is no use saying 'We are doing our best'. You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary."

I'm not asking anyone to get fired. I am just asking everyone to do more than log on here to whine and wring their hands and caution us to "keep our powder dry."

Can I get a witness?

[AmericanActivist]

13. Amen Atticus Amen nm

[KPN]

8. Support whatever it takes to remove Trump

from office and restore loyalty to our Constitution nationwide. You? What are you willing to do?

[RandomAccess]

10. REMEMBER, those "lawbreakers" (Parks, etc.) weren't so much

engaging in criminality as CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE, and it was peaceful. Remember the photos of the mena and women at the lunch counters remaining silent and still while people poured stuff on them, and the men outside limp while being hauled away? NO VIOLENCE and in fact, only peaceful resistance.

I agree with you that the resistance has probably got to be more robust and muscular. I'm not sure how, or in what way.

I would love to see a General Strike. But -- that doesn't seem to be where Americans' heads are.

What I'm mostly concerned about right now is 2-fold:

1) Republicans in Congress not living up to their vows and

2) Democrats not understanding that they may not want to CALL for Trump's impeachment, but they damn sure need to stop treating it dismissively -- after all, he's absolutely taking a hatchet to our government and everything in it. We can't let that go on, and it's not being sufficiently reported,

SO

they've GOT to start speaking up and objecting to all of Trump's many many sins and crimes and failures and so forth and doing so very publicly, and very indignantly. They have an important part to play in educating the public. I believe that for the most part they're doing pretty well in their day-to-day jobs, but they've got to go beyond that. Way behind that.

And in fact, I think they've got to start thinking about more muscular ways to stop Trump too -- whether that's stopping everything going on in the Senate, or just having more sit ins in the House, or something. Maybe having a joint hissy fit with cameras in front of the Capitol. I don't know, I just know they've got to do more.

[GreenEyedLefty]

12. The old fashioned ground game is what wins elections

There is nothing sexy about it, but it worked in Virginia and Alabama.

Make no mistake, when Democrats vote, we win.

This is why each and every one of us has to do at least one thing in 2018 to get out the vote.