There will be no collusion or treason charges BUT there can be OTHER charges, lets fix our language!

[Eliot Rosewater]

Last edited Fri Dec 29, 2017, 02:16 PM - Edit history (3)

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/will-president-trump-be-charged-collusion-2018-not-chance-ncna832771





However, as the article states, there are other charges possible.

The problem we face is a population, half of which, who will NOT care when it is made crystal clear trump and the GOP colluded with our enemy to interfere with an election.

THAT is the problem, folks. If these were Democrats, both parties would have impeached and indicted where possible months ago, we know that.

We no longer have a 2 party system, we have one party that cares about the law and constitution and one party that does not and will do anything they can to subvert justice.

Sounds scary to me.



Didnt think I would need to add this, but I obviously do.

As ANYONE who posts here knows, there is NO bigger critic of trump and the GOP on DU in fact on the internet than me, might be a few equal to me but NO bigger.

The fucking POINT of posting this is to correct our language, collusion as to what this is about is not a crime, it should be but it isnt, and treason wont be charged, what CAN be charged however is what this thread is about.

the article linked has to be read, no copy and paste will do it justice.

So the possible charges are

obstruction of justice

violations of federal election laws.

violating the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act

Finally, there is our old friend “conspiracy.”

So no, collusion wont be charged even though he is guilty of it.

What CAN be charged is these, this doesnt include what NY can charge this vile filthy fucking criminal with either.

[Lint Head]

1. Because collusion is not a crime for one thing.

Last edited Sat Dec 30, 2017, 12:27 AM - Edit history (1)

Treason is a possibility though violence must be a part of the charge.

[Voltaire2]

10. violence is not required or treason.

The federal crime is defined by the constitution and does not require violence.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

It is massively unlikely that a charge of treason would apply. We are not at war with Russia. In fact we have normal diplomatic and economic relations with Russia, so "enemy" doesn't apply either.

[ClarendonDem]

24. By its very definition

Treason does not apply. Never thought it did. You can hang for treason.

[Lint Head]

38. Levying war is considered an act to commit violence.

[Voltaire2]

40. Yes, but that is only one of the prerequisites.

[dawg day]

36. Conspiracy IS a crime when it's conspiring to commit a crime.

[RKP5637]

2. Yep, major problem, as you say, most Americans do not give a F. And many will spin to

Fox News and/or their preacher and do what they say on brainwashed command. This country is totally F'ed up IMO.

[Eliot Rosewater]

4. Too bad he isnt a democrat, then the whole country would care and

he would have been impeached day one for emoluments clause.

[RKP5637]

18. Sadly, quite true. n/t

[spanone]

3. their opinion, not mine.

[stonecutter357]

5. Fox and RWNJ's agree with you....

[Eliot Rosewater]

6. Stop the PERSONAL ATTACKS, this thread links a story of those things trump

and friends CAN be indicted for, but these two are not them which is why we need to correct our language

But this

PERSONAL FUCKING ATTACK

will not be forgotten.

[Eliot Rosewater]

12. What you have accused me of, who you have linked me to

makes me fucking FURIOUS

Too late for an apology, by the way, you had your chance to show what kind of person you are.

The problem here is you can accuse me of the worst thing in the WORLD but I cant tell you to ....

if I do I am the one who gets banned.

Stay away from me, forever.

[Ms. Toad]

14. How about reading beyond the headline.

The actual text can be very educational!

[Sophia4]

20. It is an excellent article.

[George II]

16. Many Democrats, liberals, progressives, etc. ALSO agree with that assessment....

....there won't be charges for those two infractions because one isn't a "crime" in our law books, the other is very very difficult to prove.

But THERE CAN BE AND WILL BE charges for other crimes.

[Me.]

19. The Law Is The Law

Pity you can't or don't understand that

[Codeine]

41. Youre not making yourself look great

with this nonsense.

[GulfCoast66]

7. One is not a crime. The other has way too high a bar to meet.

But conspiracy charges are very likely.

[Eliot Rosewater]

9. Per the article, collusion can be a crime but not in this area.

The point of this thread is to read the article so we know what can be charged and likely will be.


thanks

[bullimiami]

8. As was said. Collusion not a crime. Treason, likely too difficult to prove.

But just like they dismantle the crime families, there are a myriad of crimes that go along with their lawlessness.
Money Laundering, Conspiracy, Perjury, Tax Evasion and anything under RICO, for starters.

[ProudLib72]

13. Of most concern to me is hacking the election

Let's suppose that tRump goes down because of money laundering. That's fine with me so long as the hacking into the DNC, hacking vote tabulators, and sending out an army of bots and trolls are taken seriously. Otherwise, nothing changes.

[Eliot Rosewater]

15. Given trump and the GOP are actively working with the KGB as we speak to interfere

in our next election, yes this is the big one, elections.

They call it the GRU now, it is the KGB, it is the exact same.


I refuse to play their game so I wont call it the GRU

[ProudLib72]

17. In February through maybe April I was seeing a lot of threads about hacking

Now they have died off. What does that mean? Either the Mueller investigation has eclipsed everything else, or inquiry into hacking has stopped.

Shoot, even articles about plain old gerrymandering and vote suppression seem to have trailed off. I just did a quick search of Wisconsin gerrymandering, and the last article was from the beginning of October. I do recall one article from the time of the AL election about black people being dropped from voter rolls.

Is the GOP using the Mueller investigation to draw attention away from their 2018 election schemes? Let's just say that, if I were in charge of planning to steal the mid-terms in my state, I would certainly be grateful for the cover the investigation provides.

[questionseverything]

22. i keep trying

or counting the ballots could of helped

(See, by way of just one example, my recent interview with Wisconsin's Karen McKim, whose public records request finally allowed, just weeks ago, a multi-partisan group of observers to examine paper ballots from the 2016 President election. That audit of several precincts in Racine County, paid for by the residents themselves, revealed up to 6% of perfectly valid Presidential votes went untallied, thanks to flawed optical scan systems used across the state on Election Night and, in much of the state, even during even during Green Party candidate Jill Stein's attempted "recount". Other wards which tallied by hand instead during that "recount" discovered as many as 30% of valid votes went untallied originally!)

http://bradblog.com/index.php?paged=2

Wisconsin was one of three states, along with Michigan and Pennsylvania, where Green Party candidate Jill Stein had filed for "recounts" and forensic audits of voting systems, after the Clinton Campaign declined to heed the pleas for such an audit by computer scientists and voting systems experts who begged her campaign to do so. Stein's post-election effort was largely stymied by Team Trump and various statutes in each of those states. A statewide tally was allowed to move forward in Wisconsin, however only about half of the state's ballots were hand-counted, as municipalities were allowed to carry out their choice of either manual- or machine-tallied "recounts".

http://bradblog.com/?p=12386
After finding an alarming number of uncounted ballots in Racine County precincts during last year's machine "recount" (see documentary filmmaker Lulu Friesdat's alarming coverage of election officials refusing to hand-tally clearly valid votes there during Stein's attempted "recount" the volunteers at WIE filed, and paid for, a public records request to examine the hand-marked paper ballots in a number of those wards.

Recently, they were allowed to review those ballots and, as they feared, many perfectly valid votes had gone uncounted by the optical-scan systems both during the original Election Night tally and the so-called "recount" in counties that used the same faulty computer scanners for the second count, after they had similarly mistallied ballots on Election Night.

[ProudLib72]

27. Thank you. Your work is appreciated

It's not that people don't care. It's that there is this major distraction called the Mueller investigation.

I'm not trying to belittle the importance of Mueller's investigation. I just think we are capable of focusing on two things at once. From now on, I will be on the lookout for your posts.

[questionseverything]

43. you are aware of the hacking so that is a great start

peops forget not only were the e mails hacked, so were the election boards

[mcar]

21. All 4 that you listed are strong possibilities

This article is correct, Eliot. And if we and the media keep saying collusion, when it doesn't happen, dotard and co will say see, we told you so!

[Eliot Rosewater]

23. Exactly, thanks for making that point as well. Thus why he has said 16 times in one interview

NO COLLUSION

Will his deplorable fucking fans realize that there was of course collusion but that it is not illegal, it should be but it isnt, unless there is election fraud.

So their BAR will always be raised, they will never hold him accountable for anything.

[ClarendonDem]

25. I've often wondered

What is the technical definition of "collusion"? I mean, Trump may have been aware that Russians were posting HRC hit-pieces on Facebook to help Trump, and to me that's "collusion." But it doesn't violate any law I'm aware of. Still, it should be an impeachable offense, or one of a laundry list of reasons that might result in impeachment.

[gopiscrap]

26. exactly

[madinmaryland]

28. I see this as the VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY we have been talking about for more

than 25 years. One that has the capacity to draw in most of the Republican Party at the federal level (House, Senate, President, and maybe even some on the Supreme Court).

[Eliot Rosewater]

29. It worked to discredit a great Stateswoman who would have made top 5 president of all time

They banged away at her for 25 years and look at the result.

[tableturner]

30. It's simple: Collusion is a non technical, non statutory, rough equivalent of conspiracy.

Conspiracy is the actual crime people are talking about when they mention collusion. The fact is....if, for instance, one or more people collude, cooperate, and/or plan to receive stolen emails, then they are guilty of conspiracy to obtain stolen property by virtue of the aforementioned collusion, cooperation, and/or planning (other statutes probably apply, too).

Edited to add: If one or more people collude, cooperate, CONSPIRE, and/or plan, a birthday party, they are not guilty of breaking a law.

[Eliot Rosewater]

32. Which is why trump said 16 times no collusion. Because while there was of course

collusion, there will be no official collusion indictment.

Election tampering and money laundering however is very possible.

[NastyRiffraff]

31. I completely agree

I had a discussion with a friend about this very thing yesterday. I suggested "conspiracy" but I like the rest of your list too, especially "obstruction of justice."

Collusion is not a crime in itself, only when it's part of a conspiracy. Which makes me wonder why Dump is so adamant that there was none.

[Eliot Rosewater]

33. Yes, thanks. I bring this up because the rightwingers are brilliant at framing the debate.

Trump isnt, they told him to say that over and over, but his handlers are.

Death tax
Death panels

etc

[old guy]

34. When this is all over,

no one is going to jail for anything. There will be some attempts but by the time the lawyers and wordsmiths get through parsing every paragraph and sentence and phrase nobody will be found guilty of anything. The investigations will be over and tRump ,the Russians and their repub cohorts and donors will ride triumphantly into the sunset along with what remains of our country. Count on it.

[kairos12]

35. I think regardless of what crimes are charged is whether Drumpt

will just pardon everyone, including himself. He knows he has the Russian judge on SCOTUS as his fifth vote. I think he will pardon everyone and dare the country to do anything about it. There is no chance the Dems could get 67 votes to impeach. The rethugs have down too far down the road to let Drumpt go down in flames.

Getting rid of Drumpt in 2020 is our only chance.

[dawg day]

37. Money laundering...

which probably also led to tax evasion.

[GreenEyedLefty]

39. Yep, this.

Obstruction of justice and money laundering.

People shouldn't underestimate Trump, that is one slick bastard right there.

[Mr. Ected]

42. You know how many times the word "collusion" is used in the Order Appointing a Special Counsel?

None. Zippo. Nada.

Only FOX and Trump give the word "collusion" life.

It's not even in Bob Mueller's dictionary.

[heaven05]

44. I just hope

this POtuS thug, con man, grifter, looter along with his family of our treasury, sexually predatory animal goes down. Period.