When that extra few bucks starts showing up in paychecks.. What do we do to make sure people

[annabanana]

see their $5, 10 or 20 bucks and think, "Yeah, but (their most spoiled 'rich person') got 30 THOUSAND.

Big whoop. I can switch from generic to name brand.

I trust that there are Democratic number crunchers working hard on this right now. Right?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. And when will that occur? It sure won't be next month.

The IRS still has to enact rules and figure out withholding and get the schedules and forms out. The agency is understaffed and underfunded, and is operating with some pretty old technology; and then employer payroll departments have to make the changes. I'd be very surprised if checks based on the new withholding figures went out before spring, if then.

[haele]

6. They'll probably get it fixed and in place for employers "retroactively" in September.

Just late enough for a big tax holiday that month so to appear to make an impact on the rubes who were complaining about the GOP because they weren't seeing their tax break.
These same people couldn't put two and two together and realize that an IRS that has been drowning while on continuance funding since 2010 due to the GOP partisan nastiness just didn't have the ability to make the technology upgrades to get their tax issues settled quickly once the new withholdings schedule was announced.
"If TurboTax can figure out my taxes in two weeks, why can't the IRS?"
And so the decline continues...

Haele

[fescuerescue]

17. February

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-statement-withholding-for-2018

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

19. Yeah, we'll see.

[fescuerescue]

20. Exactly.

I would be shocked if the IRS doesn't push out the updated withholding tables.

It's easy enough to publish a document and this has enough politically visibility, that there is no way the IRS would fail to publish the document. It's likely already in draft form.

The weak link, and the place where the IRS and Whitehouse have little control, is the various payroll services. Payroll services have to implement those new tables and they are not government institutions, but corporations.

[samnsara]

2. Every paycheck increase decrease or no change im posting on twitter

...and to .@POTUS

[annabanana]

22. seems interesting.. Maybe post here as well!. . . n/t

[Nictuku]

3. When the money does come in, people should donate it to a progressive.

[DeltaLitProf]

4. It won't actually get to many workers

. . . because of increases in insurance premiums.

[elehhhhna]

5. If you itemize you're probably screwed.

Wait til people find that out. Q1, 2019 gonna be a shitstorm.

Just help folks run the numbers before the midterms.

[annabanana]

23. Run the numbers just before midterms..

sounds like it might bear fruit..

(I know that's what going to hammer me)

[Skittles]

7. these fucking idiots are going to be expecting WAY more than an extra 20 dollars

THEY ARE DUMB AS FENCE POSTS

[trof]

9. WOW! That's pretty dumb.

At least it SOUNDS pretty dumb.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

[Skittles]

11. he promised them lots of jobs, cheap healthcare, extra money and a fucking wall

THEY AIN'T GETTING JACK SHIT

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and Mz. T too my sweet!

[trof]

12. And he told his buddies at Mar A Lago...

"I just made you all a lot richer."

[Skittles]

13. one of the few times he has told the truth

he is an elitist piece of shit

[annabanana]

24. Dumb enough to let him blame it on Obama?. . . n/t

[Aristus]

8. Remind them that the tax cut isn't the problem.

The tax cut is designed to increase the budget deficit, and the national debt. The people who cheered the tax cut through Congress will re-discover that they're actually deficit-hawks. And that's when they'll start saying we need to make cuts in Social Security and Medicare in order to reduce the budget deficit.

They're hoping you'll forget, or never knew, that Social Security doesn't add a penny to the deficit, because it has its own independent funding source.

They don't care. They want to raid the Social Security fund in order to line their own pockets, and those of their campaign contributors to the tune of at least 1 trillion dollars.

[Willie Pep]

15. I agree with this tactic.

People are only deficit hawks when they want to be though, especially when they think that the deficits are caused by "handouts" to the poor. They don't mind expanding the deficit when it benefits them, for example when it comes to tax cuts. We have to remind people that that tax cuts and the resulting budget deficits will be used as an excuse to cut Social Security and Medicare.

I have tried to explain this to some conservatives I know but they don't believe me. They think I am a Chicken Little and that the Republicans won't dare touch Medicare or Social Security.

[annabanana]

25. Might be a bit too complicated for people

who have less than no interest in politics.

(I know.. I can't imagine it either)

I'm looking to frame the increase in terms of a weekly or biweekly check...

[W_HAMILTON]

10. Obama cut payroll taxes early in his administration...

...and most people didn't even realize that their taxes were cut because the difference ended up being so small, relatively speaking.

The same will go for this tax cut, except it has been much more publicized, so when people still don't see their paychecks going up by much, they are going to wonder why the hell not.

Tell them because while it was sold as a middle class tax cut, it ended up being a tax cut for the wealthy and big businesses.

[annabanana]

26. That's what I figure . .

I hope some useful info hits the airwaves at the earliest opportunity..

[Cosmocat]

34. This one will be a bigger bump

People will notice this one - Rs are 99% idiots, but they set this up in this way, the same way that they fought tooth and nail to make sure the BHO bump was minimal.

Its ALL politics with them, not the first fucking care policy wise. So, they rail on about "only 2% growth" knowing full well they did everything the could, not just in DC, but also at the state level, to drag down the recovery.

What people have to grasp is what others have noted - they are not going to get as much on their returns. Again, something these assholes planed to get to eek past this November.

The difference will be what you note very marginal, a bit of a bump in take home that will be washed out in good part when they get their tax returns.

Have tried to explain that to the wife ...

[W_HAMILTON]

37. I don't think so.

The withholding that will be felt in people's paychecks starting in February or so is based on the new tax brackets, which for the most part are a ~3% cut. The first ~$10,000 in wages didn't even get a tax cut.

Obama's payroll tax cut was a sure-fire 2% cut for most workers, given that most workers never hit the Social Security wage cap.

I don't think most people will notice, honestly -- at least not your typical everyday worker.

When 4/15/2019 rolls around and we have to file our tax returns based on the new law, then there might be some more noticeable benefits, but many people will also unfortunately find out that after all the new changes to the tax code, they end up a loser from this deal.

[Willie Pep]

14. Ask them if the extra money will be worth killing Medicare and Social Security.

Good luck paying for retirement and medical care with your extra money from the tax cut. Ask them why they get so angry over the deficit when Democrats are in charge but not when the GOP is and if they are OK with cuts to Medicare and Social Security when the GOP tax cuts balloon the deficit.

I think we have to make the danger to Medicare and Social Security our major point. I hate to say this but most Americans don't seem to care about cuts to programs for the poor. Many actually seem to like the idea of poor people being hurt by GOP policies. So we have to point out that middle-class entitlements are on the chopping block next. Sadly many people are likely going to have to learn the hard way and feel some personal pain before they care.

[kydo]

16. We start telling bad government jokes like raygun did. Soon the happiness of the extra 10$, will fade

when everything else goes up and they are 800$ in the hole. Make fun of the government and remind them rethugs are the government. You know the worst feared words from hurricane victims is? "Hi, we're from the government and we are here to help." Raygun told that joke all the time and it worked. He through humor repetition made people think the government is bad and who was the government? Democrats.

Sadly people should be afraid of this current government.

[FSogol]

18. Extra bucks? Haw-haw.

Unless they are rich, there won't be any extra bucks. They were conned and swindled by Trumpy.

[mcar]

21. My guess is that people will barely notice it

And then, in late 2018, they'll get the news that their health insurance premiums are going up much higher.

Blue Tsunami.

[Beartracks]

27. Think they'll realize that their hooge tax cut is offset by...

... loss of tax deductions?

============

[Terry_M]

28. Remind people that 83% of the 1.5 trillion $ in new debt is going to the top 1%

Or better yet, use more emotionally charged language like:

The bottom 99% are only getting 17% of the total tax cut.
You're getting a few bucks each paycheck, Trump, his closest friends, and big Republican party donors are making millions a year off this bill.
The bottom 99% are sharing 250 billion $, while the richest of the rich are getting the other 1,250 billion.

Don't wait until February... Start talking about that now.

it's not a BAD thing that people are seeing their 20$ added to their paycheck. It's a BAD thing that the bill is so awfully skewed.

[Joe941]

33. This.

[Joe941]

29. The prob is so many have been saying this is a tax increase...

And now the story is going to change. I was warning against calling this a tax increase when we knew it wasnt. This is going to cost some credibility points unfortunately.

[Skittles]

30. I read it as it will END UP being a tax increase

the word TEMPORARY was thrown around quite a bit

[progree]

32. Yup, the good parts for individuals will go away by 2027 but the new chained CPI will remain

and cut deeper and deeper over the years-- as the annual tax bracket adjustments fail to rise as much as inflation year after year.

[Joe941]

36. Only if we can win back a branch of government to stop rePukes from extending it again.

[RainCaster]

31. My increase will be split between the DNC, ACLU & SPLC

I'm investing in our future. I advise a similar strategy for everyone.

[Cosmocat]

35. This country is dumber than $hit right now, however ...

I think people have the sense for what this really was ...

Their 1/3 will crow about the increased take home.

My sense is that the mushy middle, mostly a thorn in our side, get that they are getting fed bread crumbs to get screwed in other ways ...

Might see a bit of a uptick when it hits, and how the actual economy performs will play a role either way.

But, after a bit, unless a lot of things just miraculously go right, 45 is going to do and say all kinds of crazy $hit and that draws everyone's attention.

[GulfCoast66]

38. We are getting a big cut. Which is fucked up.

High income for this area. No kids or debts. Retirement savings done. And the country approaching 3rd world status due to no public investment in 30 years.

I am looking for charity health care causes to give my unearned windfall.