Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

jodymarie aimee

(3,975 posts)
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 01:57 PM Dec 2017

American Brit moved back to London. "Trump is a logical result of your culture."



Mari

London|Dec. 22


I am an American, since 2011. I am also European. Moving to America in 2001, I read the history of the country I had now adopted - the Revolution, Civil War, Sixties Revolution, Caro's magisterial books on Robert Moses and LBJ. Living close to Concord, MA, I had plenty of local sources of US history and culture. However, I found the country in which I now lived to be a cold, occasionally vicious place; everything was for sale - including health care, which I had regarded as a basic human right in my European home. Employment law was totally skewed in favour of the Employer. No statutory Maternity Leave or even statutory vacation days! I quickly formed an impression of a people working and working harder just to keep up - getting deeper and deeper into debt to keep up their lifestyles and naively swallowing every marketing message that came their way - totally in thrall to Capital which just want to sell them more and more useless stuff and lend them more and more money to buy it. I moved back to Europe, having first become an American citizen (dual) and was appalled from a distance when Trump was elected - but not surprised. The US is a nation that has been selling itself to itself for a long time and has a 'weakest loses' culture - everyone is competing with everyone else in a dog-eat-dog society. There is no room left for civilised (with an 's'!) society. So this American, with a perspective formed outside it, can tell you that Trump is a logical result of your culture.
177 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
American Brit moved back to London. "Trump is a logical result of your culture." (Original Post) jodymarie aimee Dec 2017 OP
Difficult for me to refute this sentiment.nm Ferrets are Cool Dec 2017 #1
i can explain it. trump is the logical result of ignoring right wing talk radio for 30 yrs certainot Dec 2017 #142
We allow vicious lies in the name of "Freedom of the Press" and we allow our (former) politicians/ Dustlawyer Dec 2017 #146
a lot on left fall for that rw talking point about freedom of speech bullshit applied to a classic certainot Dec 2017 #157
I agree that the Dems have done a piss poor job at counter sttack whathehell Dec 2017 #169
I'm so sorry janterry Dec 2017 #2
You do many things well. LiberalLovinLug Dec 2017 #26
Yes we do whathehell Dec 2017 #75
Wish I could go with her. zentrum Dec 2017 #84
I wish you could too whathehell Dec 2017 #91
Maybe, but we are currently the winnas in decline. nt Susan Calvin Dec 2017 #96
Says you.. whathehell Dec 2017 #120
Yep. Sez you. I beg to differ. Susan Calvin Dec 2017 #121
Merry Christmas,! whathehell Dec 2017 #124
Happy holidays,! (typo included) Susan Calvin Dec 2017 #126
I'd call it a zentrum Dec 2017 #139
Perhaps zentrum Dec 2017 #141
Perhaps whathehell Dec 2017 #148
I was merely responding zentrum Dec 2017 #171
Of course you were.. whathehell Dec 2017 #172
You might ask youself why civilization is in decline. defacto7 Dec 2017 #103
Lol..am I supposed to respond whathehell Dec 2017 #119
Um. Grammar police. You find the error. nt. Susan Calvin Dec 2017 #122
Um, how about I don't? whathehell Dec 2017 #127
Your choice, your prob. Susan Calvin Dec 2017 #128
Seems to be more your "prob" than mine whathehell Dec 2017 #131
Yep. nt. Susan Calvin Dec 2017 #123
Have you ever lived in Europe? Sophia4 Dec 2017 #136
Yes I have.. whathehell Dec 2017 #137
It is about values. What value do we put on a human life that does not have an Doodley Dec 2017 #155
Wish I could move to London from the US. OliverQ Dec 2017 #3
Oh my.. whathehell Dec 2017 #92
Yikes ! Reading this will be most discouraging virgogal Dec 2017 #4
Harsh, but largely true. Crunchy Frog Dec 2017 #5
All true - from one born and raised here. TryLogic Dec 2017 #36
Bullshit..from one also "born and raised here". whathehell Dec 2017 #93
Well, Susan Calvin Dec 2017 #102
Ah yes the old love it or leave it. BannonsLiver Dec 2017 #110
So your alternative is? whathehell Dec 2017 #118
The OP says what I feel. nt. Susan Calvin Dec 2017 #125
Well, bless your heart whathehell Dec 2017 #129
What does patriotism mean to you? Doodley Dec 2017 #152
the door might be open NJCher Dec 2017 #147
Such is life.. whathehell Dec 2017 #168
Ha, not really treestar Dec 2017 #161
Largely biased, I'd say. whathehell Dec 2017 #74
I'd take the royal family over the Republican party any day. Crunchy Frog Dec 2017 #76
Never heard of the Tories, Lol? whathehell Dec 2017 #79
I'd take them over the Republicans too. Crunchy Frog Dec 2017 #83
There's more upward mobility zentrum Dec 2017 #85
.. Only since quite recently, and even now, only by a small margin. whathehell Dec 2017 #87
I wouldn't. Jake Stern Dec 2017 #90
The monarch wields no actual power. Crunchy Frog Dec 2017 #101
First it's not about who actually wields power Jake Stern Dec 2017 #111
I didn't say there was a point to it, Crunchy Frog Dec 2017 #117
Oh my goodness. cwydro Dec 2017 #138
The real equivalent is the Tories treestar Dec 2017 #163
Yes, I thought, what about Brexit? treestar Dec 2017 #162
And when you look at TPTB Trump crowd, it extends far beyond Trump. There are many basically RKP5637 Dec 2017 #6
Yes. This is true about our culture nm AmericanActivist Dec 2017 #7
My response: A lot of us know this, and are similarly embarrassed, ashamed, and dismayed. Aristus Dec 2017 #8
I remember many, many years ago PatSeg Dec 2017 #51
And it's not even an accurate quote. Susan Calvin Dec 2017 #97
Yes PatSeg Dec 2017 #144
Sad, but true. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2017 #9
If only dear Mari had a clue, saidsimplesimon Dec 2017 #10
Mari is going back to reasonably-structured healthcare. Demit Dec 2017 #12
That is subject to cuts and the constant threat of cuts by whathehell Dec 2017 #82
Constant threat, yeah, I know. In the meantime they have it don't they? Demit Dec 2017 #100
Exactly...It's surprising how "plutocratic" Jolly Olde has become whathehell Dec 2017 #45
Thank you for bringing some balance to the subject whathehell Dec 2017 #134
I cant blame Mari at all. MrScorpio Dec 2017 #11
I can whathehell Dec 2017 #71
Ouch! Heartstrings Dec 2017 #13
What doesnt make sense to me is spooky3 Dec 2017 #14
It's still in the US. Mariana Dec 2017 #18
No question (although MA has its own health care system), spooky3 Dec 2017 #46
It's just an opinion piece. Mariana Dec 2017 #67
I've mentioned it before Kogaratsu72 Dec 2017 #77
Trump himself said, "the American Dream is dead" world wide wally Dec 2017 #15
Yes indeed. mountain grammy Dec 2017 #30
This ought to be a poster or something. nt. raccoon Dec 2017 #70
We Would Do Well to Listen to Mari Leith Dec 2017 #16
I would have to agree with her. smirkymonkey Dec 2017 #17
Lol...I doubt you'd enjoy Austria now ..It's gone to the Right. whathehell Dec 2017 #49
Yep, Austria is not a step up now. Alice11111 Dec 2017 #59
Correct. n/t. whathehell Dec 2017 #61
What about Brexit. nycbos Dec 2017 #19
nycbos, bingo saidsimplesimon Dec 2017 #48
Truly. Not much high ground here. My partner has duel Alice11111 Dec 2017 #54
Of course.. Mentioned by me in a post up thread. whathehell Dec 2017 #56
We agree again. Alice11111 Dec 2017 #58
True, but not new... paleotn Dec 2017 #20
UK enid602 Dec 2017 #21
Foreign intervention wouldn't have worked if the soil had not already been fertile. The_jackalope Dec 2017 #24
Talent enid602 Dec 2017 #40
Absolutely spot on analysis of American society. procon Dec 2017 #22
Looking south from Ottawa, I agree with her. The_jackalope Dec 2017 #23
"selling itself to itself" struck a chord with me as well yonder Dec 2017 #88
I saw a bumper sticker on a truck this morning mnhtnbb Dec 2017 #25
The future is going smack these morons very hard and very soon. roamer65 Dec 2017 #39
Also thinking of moving. Lonestarblue Dec 2017 #50
Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2017 #113
Funny thing his wife is probably the type to hate on "Moozlems" Jake Stern Dec 2017 #176
The damage done seals the deal StarzGuy Dec 2017 #27
Sorry for your disability . I feel the same way. I'm retired and trying to live on less than 800.00 geretogo Dec 2017 #35
Most Americans don't care about the Common Good anymore! Chasstev365 Dec 2017 #28
You mean like the Majority that voted Clinton instead of Trump? whathehell Dec 2017 #62
Merry Christmas! Chasstev365 Dec 2017 #68
Happy New Year! whathehell Dec 2017 #69
This reminds me of X-Files episode last year "Mulder and Scully Meet the Were-Monster" underpants Dec 2017 #29
Yes, because her superior Brit culture resulted in citizens voting to leave whathehell Dec 2017 #31
They still have single-payer health care, old chap. The_jackalope Dec 2017 #34
..and an outdated mentally mediocre Monarchy still payed up the nose for whathehell Dec 2017 #37
I'd trade DJT for Queen Elizabeth II in a New York minute The_jackalope Dec 2017 #38
Lol.. That's unfortunate since we can throw DJT out, but the Royals are forever whathehell Dec 2017 #41
The only way DJT won't remain a benign burden is.. mdbl Dec 2017 #98
Being thrown out of office might work too whathehell Dec 2017 #130
Even if you consider the Royal family a waste of money... potone Dec 2017 #158
Lol.. whathehell Dec 2017 #167
Absolutely true . geretogo Dec 2017 #32
Happy Holidays, Mari mountain grammy Dec 2017 #33
we are still learning how to be a country samnsara Dec 2017 #42
Yes. Absolutely yes Saboburns Dec 2017 #43
Thanks for giving us a try bucolic_frolic Dec 2017 #44
So, let me get this straight - Mme. Defarge Dec 2017 #47
i agree with you onetexan Dec 2017 #53
We're the whole zero sum thing or whatever writ large. Ligyron Dec 2017 #52
Beautiful place Concord. Home to Walden Pond and some very nice people. CentralMass Dec 2017 #55
I picture Trump and family (GOP) as bad renters tavernier Dec 2017 #57
No, Donald Trump is NOT a logical result of American culture ollie10 Dec 2017 #60
Our values are fucked up. No question. Yavin4 Dec 2017 #63
Contrasted to the absolutely sterling ones of other countries? whathehell Dec 2017 #72
I've been to other countries Yavin4 Dec 2017 #78
Likely not as many as I have.. whathehell Dec 2017 #80
Most of the rest of the world supports families more. yardwork Dec 2017 #145
Most of what is being defined as "America" here, is really whathehell Dec 2017 #173
Couldn't agree more. shanny Dec 2017 #64
Who wrote this? melman Dec 2017 #65
I love living here in BC! Fiendish Thingy Dec 2017 #66
She doesn't say why she came here...I'd guess it was a marriage whathehell Dec 2017 #73
Well, Britain has its own problems, with Brexit etc.! LeftishBrit Dec 2017 #81
Are OP jodymarie aimee and Mari the same person? Why the third-person subject line? VOX Dec 2017 #86
Fine, but two words for you: Teresa. May. regnaD kciN Dec 2017 #89
OP: I cant say Quemado Dec 2017 #94
So very well said. Without much of an outside viewpoint, BlancheSplanchnik Dec 2017 #95
Well said. Dual citizenship has its advantages. Best of luck. Eyeball_Kid Dec 2017 #99
Spot on. mudstump Dec 2017 #104
She's right. Sadly. Wish I could afford to move to Great Britain. Honeycombe8 Dec 2017 #105
It's embarrassing... mudstump Dec 2017 #106
Ironically, it's usually Americans who have never been outside of this country. smirkymonkey Dec 2017 #133
Hear hear! defacto7 Dec 2017 #107
How about Barack Obama? Also a logical result of our culture? n/t sl8 Dec 2017 #108
As the French say, the difference between America and Yogurt, Xipe Totec Dec 2017 #109
That's an ignorant statement, imo. Visit any American city, and they'll be full of culture! Oneironaut Dec 2017 #156
Little Miss Brexit/UKIP likes prancing on her high horse, doesn't she?? Blue_Tires Dec 2017 #112
Sad but true Pepsidog Dec 2017 #114
Americas dirty secret exposed Pepsidog Dec 2017 #115
It is a little depressing to read this and realize old guy Dec 2017 #116
I'm wondering where are country has gone, and where it's going. You are so right. YOHABLO Dec 2017 #132
I completely agree and have felt it coming cilla4progress Dec 2017 #135
I'll ask again melman Dec 2017 #140
It doesn't matter, as that is the sentiment of millions. Doodley Dec 2017 #154
It definitely does matter melman Dec 2017 #175
Shes right. alarimer Dec 2017 #143
This American disease arises periodically, but this particular strain of it started ... Persondem Dec 2017 #149
Partially true, I think. lark Dec 2017 #150
So she moves back to a country that worships Kings and Queens. former9thward Dec 2017 #151
I think Americans are more into royalty than the Brits. Doodley Dec 2017 #153
Do you really believe the British "worship" kings and queens? Demit Dec 2017 #164
Its a sick culture we fought a revolution against. former9thward Dec 2017 #170
I agree this Presidency is a crime and therefore should logically be Enoki33 Dec 2017 #159
Don't forget Hillary won the popular vote treestar Dec 2017 #160
The Palin family Turbineguy Dec 2017 #165
I blame this country for allowing Hate Radio and Hate Network Fox News yuiyoshida Dec 2017 #166
So what was Obama? whathehell Dec 2017 #174
I was born here and if I had the money would blow out of Dodge in a heartbeat, all is lost even if FreeStateDemocrat Dec 2017 #177
 

certainot

(9,090 posts)
142. i can explain it. trump is the logical result of ignoring right wing talk radio for 30 yrs
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 09:35 AM
Dec 2017

here's the simple math that is ignored every time liberals and political pundits and activists blame FOX and breitbart and russian social media trolling operations or 'economic anxiety' for this 30 year disaster leading to trump.

at a cheap $1000/hr x 15hrs/day x 5 = $75,000/wk x 1200 stations right wing talk radio is worth $18MIL/day or 390MIL$ /month or 4.68 BIL$/ year FREE for coordinated global warming denial, pro republican free market deregulation and wall st think tank propaganda, swiftboating of good citizens, attacks on public education and teachers, passing voter suppression legislation, trying to repeal obamacare, and the hate and fear used to get people to vote republican.

fox and money in politics and media consolidation are symptoms of continuing the biggest political mistake in history - ignoring 300 ignorant think tank-scripted blowhards on 1500 radio stations reaching 50 mil americans a week while they trash good people and liberal ideals and kick dem/left ass for billionaires while pretending its popular sentiment.

the absurdity of ignoring rw radio is exemplified in the fact that liberal activists and progressive orgs ignore the fact that 88 universities (at least) broadcast sports (majority black athletes) on/support 257 of those stations while they spew racism all day.

and i hope that british american doesn't ignore talk radio in england selling brexit all day, supported by russian trolls (was it?)

Dustlawyer

(10,493 posts)
146. We allow vicious lies in the name of "Freedom of the Press" and we allow our (former) politicians/
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 11:38 AM
Dec 2017

Representatives to be legally bribed by the rich and powerful. What did we expect would happen?

 

certainot

(9,090 posts)
157. a lot on left fall for that rw talking point about freedom of speech bullshit applied to a classic
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 12:47 PM
Dec 2017

military style propaganda operation - kremlin/gop > talk radio > fox > trump

a chorus of 300 liars led by limbaugh who's on 600 of 1500 radio stations and they all repeat the same when needed, hiding behind call screeners and prompted by paid callers.

and the left thinks it represents DEMAND, while repubs enforce a 95% monopoly and run clearchannel with $20 bil in debt

and dems ignore it and blame fox

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
169. I agree that the Dems have done a piss poor job at counter sttack
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 02:47 PM
Dec 2017

and we can expect to keep losing if they don't get with the program

LiberalLovinLug

(14,153 posts)
26. You do many things well.
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 03:17 PM
Dec 2017

We admire y'all in so many ways. Hollywood has created great masterpieces, and at times still puts out amazing work. Music, from early jazz to blues to rocknroll so many incredible artists. Writers, comedians and visual artists. Many of whom have pushed the boundaries to move society, even the global society, forward. And running through your society there also is a great optimism, a great work ethic, and open friendly people.


Its such a shame that all of that gets lost in the diabolical machinations of a few dark souls that have the power.


zentrum

(9,865 posts)
84. Wish I could go with her.
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 08:08 PM
Dec 2017

Not sour. Just outraged that we no longer have a civilization. Somehow I don't define civilized as being sour.

We aren't FDR's country anymore. And in most ways, we never were for people of color.

zentrum

(9,865 posts)
139. I'd call it a
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 09:10 AM
Dec 2017

...matter of being well traveled in the 1st world, which btw, I am.

Perhaps you are not aware that there are sections of Los Angeles which are absolutley equivalent to the 3rd world? With 15,000 homelss children concentrated in an urban area?

zentrum

(9,865 posts)
141. Perhaps
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 09:29 AM
Dec 2017

…..you're unaware that in England and other European countries, elections are publicly funded. Politicians are not allowed to accept money from private entities. The election cycle is limited and not linked to endless media buys.

Perhaps you're unaware that our congress has basically become a kind of crime syndicate with favors granted, based on bribery. Which causes our "leaders" to spend more time fund-raising during the course of a year than doing legislation that would actually keep our country intact. So who really runs our government?

Perhaps you're unaware that we have higher rates of infant death, maternity death, die younger, and score lower in math/reading/science scores.

Perhaps you heard that our CDC has banned words including the words "diversity" and "vulnerable"? And that our EPA is denying climate change?

All so civilized!





whathehell

(28,968 posts)
148. Perhaps
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 11:51 AM
Dec 2017

You've made unwarranted assumptions about my knowledge of US problems.. Perhaps I'm well aware, but view them in a more balanced manner than some angsty, anonymous expat or American who knows ONLY of "our" problems and little to nothing of those elsewhere.

In regard to our congress, perhaps you're unaware of the huge lobbying industry in Brussels that solicits the European Parliament.
Perhaps you don't know that, in addition to it, there is "special interest" legislation produced within each and every EU nation
and that it's as subject to bribery and corruption as that produced elsewhere. By way of some verification, you might ask any German national what became of The Berlin Airport that Was Never Built...
I'll let you digest some of that before moving on. Merry Christmas.

















zentrum

(9,865 posts)
171. I was merely responding
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 03:44 PM
Dec 2017

…in kind, to your assumption expressed earlier, that I and others here had not traveled. And, unlike you, I leave open the question as to whether or not the lucky expat Brit posting here is aware of our history and our aspirations. I suspect s/he is.

Yes, each country has great flaws since Neo-liberalism is taking over the entire world.

Nonetheless, it really cannot be denied that the European countries do have a greater sense of The Commons (which, as I'm sure you know, is another way of describing being an actual Civilization); and stronger trade and union movements, which prevent the entire enterprise from being only a mercantile corporate state, as ours very nearly is. I notice you do not address my points about childhood homelessness, nor the 3rd world conditions we have in one of our richest cities (though such conditions exist throughout the country). Nor do you reference the denial of science, the denial of climate change. Hardly an advanced culture, that.

Finally, in terms of demonstrating how America has become a Lesser Civilization, I have two words for you: Donald Trump.

Happy Hanukkah.

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
172. Of course you were..
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 05:56 PM
Dec 2017

Unfortunately for your hopes of making a point, your "two words"
pertain to only One year of America -- Next.

P.S. Hanukkah's over -- try to keep up.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
103. You might ask youself why civilization is in decline.
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 10:59 PM
Dec 2017

I have lived "all over". You seem to have the impression that everyone is going down with the ship, each country with its own individual reason. That would be incorrect. There are a lot of reasons for global decline but most stem from the socially backward, educationally insufficient, downward spiral of the good old US of A. The US is leading the pack downward because of its military power, ill-gotten loot and non-global thinking. The US is by no means the beacon of an advanced civilization. I can think of several countries that are at least moving the right direction like Norway, Slovenia, Sweden, Iceland, France, even Italy far outclasses the US in most things that support the common human being.

And we have Trump, the GOP and the .1% in control. It's embarrassing and disgusting.

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
119. Lol..am I supposed to respond
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 01:11 AM
Dec 2017

"It's all because of us"?

You're impression is incorrect -- I have traveled widely and have lived outside the country as well. In addition, I've never claimed the US to he a "beacon of civilization"..That said, I'm not about to bow my head in mea culpas because some anonymous, self superior expat felt like venting her spleen. Like most here, I'm doing my best to improve things, but I've no appetite for humble pie -- If you do, have at it.

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
136. Have you ever lived in Europe?
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 03:25 AM
Dec 2017

I have. The economic system varies from country to country (lived in four of them), but is better there than here although I think that Americans are wonderful people, probably nicer and friendlier than Europeans.

But our economic system is brutal and cruel to many of us. It just is.

The personal kindness of Americans does not make up for that fact from the perspective of the poor. Charity is nice. But the security that a poor person enjoys when he/she lives in a less winner-takes-all society is worth any drawbacks their systems have.

It's all a matter of balance. But a person cannot have dignity when he or she has to stand out in front of a gas station or at a street corner and beg for the money for food and then sleep in a makeshift tent or just on the street in the cold at night.

And how can a person participate in a truly meaningful way in our democratic process when he or she has no dignity, must beg for food and sleep on the street?

The homelessness in our society is a sure giveaway about the corruption and cruelty of it.

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
137. Yes I have..
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 04:31 AM
Dec 2017

and I don't know where or when you lived in Europe, but I"m surprised that you don't seem to know that homelessness exists there as well.

This is a particularly bad time in our country -- The worst I've seen it and I'm in my sixties. That said, we're not the only country to go through a bad period, and I'm not willing to judge it on that basis.

















Doodley

(8,976 posts)
155. It is about values. What value do we put on a human life that does not have an
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 12:20 PM
Dec 2017

automatic right to good healthcare access? What value do we put on women if they do not have the right to earn the same money as a man for doing the same job? What value do we place on the environment if we stick two fingers up to the rest of the world and reverse existing protections? As a nation, we do not share the same values as Western Europe.

Everything is cheap. The houses are flimsily made. The roads have potholes. The bridges are crumbling. Millions do not have healthcare. But where are our values? Investing in our people and our nation or giving more to those who already have more than enough?

 

OliverQ

(3,363 posts)
3. Wish I could move to London from the US.
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 02:03 PM
Dec 2017

I've had it with this country. Owned by the rich and corporations with corruption at 3rd world levels. This isn't the greatest country in the world anymore, and likely never will be again.

 

virgogal

(10,178 posts)
4. Yikes ! Reading this will be most discouraging
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 02:04 PM
Dec 2017

to people that want to come here.

This person lived in Concord,MA------a very wealthy town----full of capitalism


.

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
93. Bullshit..from one also "born and raised here".
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 08:48 PM
Dec 2017

That said, if you find a country you like better... The door is always open, as they say.
..

Susan Calvin

(1,644 posts)
102. Well,
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 10:51 PM
Dec 2017

I believe we're the only country in the industrialized world that does not have single-payer or socialized health care.

And I sure like that Germany requires union representation on corporate boards.

That said, I wouldn't want to move to Poland right now.

BannonsLiver

(16,161 posts)
110. Ah yes the old love it or leave it.
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 11:32 PM
Dec 2017

I remember hearing that a lot during the early days of W’s Iraq debacle. From flag waving republicans. It was low grade low info bullshit then too.

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
118. So your alternative is?
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 12:52 AM
Dec 2017

Whining and crying? Pissing and moaning?.. Self-flagellating at the altar of some anonymous, self superior expat?

You can eat that shit sandwich, bro, but I'm guessing most of us will pass.


whathehell

(28,968 posts)
74. Largely biased, I'd say.
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 07:37 PM
Dec 2017

Her lovely country of origin is not a shining contrast to ours, as others here have noted.

zentrum

(9,865 posts)
85. There's more upward mobility
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 08:12 PM
Dec 2017

…in England than here.

Our upward flow is just another one the myths we're fed.

Jake Stern

(3,145 posts)
90. I wouldn't.
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 08:39 PM
Dec 2017

There is nothing in our constitution that bars a Muslim, or Jew or Catholic from becoming president but they are prohibited from taking the British throne. No president would have to choose between their office and the woman they love (cf. Edward VIII) . Most importantly I believe that nobody should become head of state by being the child of the last one.

Crunchy Frog

(26,548 posts)
101. The monarch wields no actual power.
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 10:40 PM
Dec 2017

The Prime Minister is the closest analogue to the American president, and anyone can theoretically become PM.

It's just as well that Edward VIII had to abdicate, as he was a Nazi sympathizer and possibly collaborator.

Jake Stern

(3,145 posts)
111. First it's not about who actually wields power
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 11:33 PM
Dec 2017

for example the President of Germany has very little power but the office can be held by a German of any race or religion. One day there might be a Muslim President in Germany. One day there might be a president of African heritage.

The monarch of the United Kingdom MUST be an Anglican as the monarch of the Netherlands MUST be a member of the Protestant Church of the Netherlands and the monarch of Spain MUST be a Catholic.

Second, what is the point of keeping a King or Queen? Just allow a Prime Minister to hold the head of state and head of government roles and cut out the over-indulged, pampered royals.

Seems fair to me.

Crunchy Frog

(26,548 posts)
117. I didn't say there was a point to it,
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 12:42 AM
Dec 2017

just that it's not as bad as a quasi-fascist Republican party. At least that's my opinion, you're perfectly free to disagree with me.

It seems like it's ultimately the choice of the British people, for whom the monarchy still seems to be pretty popular.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
138. Oh my goodness.
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 07:11 AM
Dec 2017

You do know the British monarchy is NOT in charge, right?

You know this, right?

If not, please do some research.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
162. Yes, I thought, what about Brexit?
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 01:01 PM
Dec 2017

They have a similar vibe, racists in the hinterlands. I would say the Parliamentary system is the only reason they have health care. Canada, Australia, and New Zealand have it because of that. The executive and legislature from the same party and a simple majority are enough. Our Senate prevents any change unless a supermajority wants it.

RKP5637

(67,030 posts)
6. And when you look at TPTB Trump crowd, it extends far beyond Trump. There are many basically
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 02:06 PM
Dec 2017

just like him. It's really a country falling apart for the majority of citizens. It's about a country feeding money and resources to a small group. It will not end well.

Aristus

(66,075 posts)
8. My response: A lot of us know this, and are similarly embarrassed, ashamed, and dismayed.
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 02:11 PM
Dec 2017

I first realized we were going off the rails back in the 90's, when I first heard the saying "Second place is the first loser."

Granted, it was a slogan designed to sell athletic shoes. But still, it dismissed the years of training, exertion, studying, practicing, and sacrificing an athlete may put in in order to compete, as meaningless if they didn't finish in first place. Silver medals, bronze medals, ribbons, laurels, standing on the platform listening to a national anthem, congratulating your fellow athletes, making your friends and family proud, all apparently worthless in a win-win-win culture where only first prize has any meaning.

I'm a natural-born citizen, not a naturalized citizen like Mari. But I'm thinking of getting out of here, and shaking the dust of this place from my feet. We've become a cartoon of a country.

PatSeg

(46,773 posts)
51. I remember many, many years ago
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 04:28 PM
Dec 2017

when I was 19, someone said to me, "Nice guys finish last". I had never heard the phrase before, though it quickly became a common cliche. It was said as a joke, but it was clear that it was becoming a prevalent attitude among Americans.

Over the years I saw people become more aggressive and materialistic. Kindness, compassion, and charity were quaint, but obsolete notions, that we enjoyed in old movies around the holidays, but not in real life. It's a Wonderful Life, Going My Way, and Boystown no longer represent ideals to aspire to. Honesty, decency, and integrity are often viewed as weaknesses, as they have no monetary value.

We started losing our way a long time ago and I suppose that Trump could be viewed as an inevitable result.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,267 posts)
9. Sad, but true.
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 02:14 PM
Dec 2017

And yet we (by "we" I mean the population and culture in general) have been conditioned to believe that this is the best, greatest, freest, etc., country on earth and that the people in all those other countries are benighted and their cultures and governments are primitive and oppressive. I guess it's like being a fish; you don't really notice the water you're swimming in.

I grew up in the '50s and '60s, when WWII was a recent memory for most adults. In school we learned that the United States single-handedly saved the world from the Nazis and that now we were the sole bulwark against the Red Menace. We also learned about how the intrepid white settlers conquered the savage Indians in order to build a great, rich nation. We learned a little about slavery and the Civil War, too; but we were told only that Lincoln freed the slaves so everything was OK now.

So we, as a people (at least of my generation), were constantly patting ourselves on the back, raving about how great we were, and brainwashing school children to that effect. It wasn't until the Vietnam war went totally south, along with the truths revealed by the civil rights movement, that some of us started questioning our national awesomeness. Even so, the underlying culture of fanatical individualism and festering racism still persists - and now, with Trump giving it his imprimatur as president, it's worse than ever.

I really don't know what to do any more.

saidsimplesimon

(7,888 posts)
10. If only dear Mari had a clue,
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 02:15 PM
Dec 2017

Mari would not say that ONLY the US has drifted into the abyss of cult worship, money, power and sex. I wish Mari the best in transforming England.

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
82. That is subject to cuts and the constant threat of cuts by
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 08:05 PM
Dec 2017

by the Conservatives in her own country...Just sayin'.

 

Demit

(11,238 posts)
100. Constant threat, yeah, I know. In the meantime they have it don't they?
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 10:16 PM
Dec 2017

Just sayin, backatcha.

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
45. Exactly...It's surprising how "plutocratic" Jolly Olde has become
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 04:13 PM
Dec 2017

Last edited Sat Dec 23, 2017, 04:44 PM - Edit history (1)

I hear there's constant attempts to underfund the National Health System.:

spooky3

(34,300 posts)
14. What doesnt make sense to me is
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 02:38 PM
Dec 2017

The area where she appeared to spend the most time and do the most reading about is among the bluest parts of the nation.

Mariana

(14,847 posts)
18. It's still in the US.
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 02:51 PM
Dec 2017

Stuff like killing Obamacare, or slashing Social Security and Medicare affect people in blue states equally.

spooky3

(34,300 posts)
46. No question (although MA has its own health care system),
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 04:15 PM
Dec 2017

But my point is that the cause effect logic is puzzling to me. If the free wheeling economic system produced Trump, how did it produce Obama, and a majority vote for Clinton? And if the system is essentially the same across the US and causes Trump, why do we have states that vary tremendously in blue to red?

Mariana

(14,847 posts)
67. It's just an opinion piece.
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 05:23 PM
Dec 2017

My husband is from England, and he sometimes says similar things (we live in MA, too). The writer is generalizing and making an overall comparison of the two cultures from the writer's point of view. I imagine the decision was partly based on subjective feelings instead of cold hard cause and effect logic. Trump was probably just the last straw.

Kogaratsu72

(53 posts)
77. I've mentioned it before
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 07:51 PM
Dec 2017

But what is perceived in the US as the Democratic Party as being left, socialist even, is not what is the European reality. If you compare the Democratic Party's program with the European ones, it ends at the right or even far right! 20 days of paid holidays, four month maternity leave, single payer social and healthcare (the list goes on) are all statutaire rights of every citizen in most European countries....

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
17. I would have to agree with her.
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 02:47 PM
Dec 2017

I would move to Europe if I could. I lived in Austria for a semester in college and loved it. I was so depressed when I had to come home. I burst into tears as I left Vienna and I burst into tears again the moment I landed at JFK. I could feel the stress, anixety, competitiveness, me-first attitude all around me. It was like reverse culture-shock in my own culture. For months afterward, I continued to have horrible anxiety attacks.

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
49. Lol...I doubt you'd enjoy Austria now ..It's gone to the Right.
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 04:25 PM
Dec 2017

In any case, a college semester in a country is not like actually "living" in it, especially as an adult, not to mention a foreigner.

nycbos

(6,032 posts)
19. What about Brexit.
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 02:52 PM
Dec 2017
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/british-lose-right-to-claim-that-americans-are-dumber

As Borowitz put it.

British Lose Right to Claim That Americans Are Dumber


“But I hold out hope that, come November, Americans could become dumber than us once more.”

saidsimplesimon

(7,888 posts)
48. nycbos, bingo
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 04:21 PM
Dec 2017

Dumb or Dumber, that is the question? The Brits passed a referendum that destroys both their claims to superior moral and economic values with Brexit. The alt-right is not in the best interests of the Queen, or England. Wake up Britannia

Alice11111

(5,730 posts)
54. Truly. Not much high ground here. My partner has duel
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 04:41 PM
Dec 2017

citizenship, hails from London, and we are in London often.

Racists are out in the open at the pubs, and they have been in England for years.
I heard over and over that Brexit was Obama's fault! This, from the same people who voted for it, and now they are realizing that they are not getting anywhere near what they wanted...to get rid of the nasty immigrants, from Eastern Europe to Africa. Geez, who would have thought that property values would fall after they made
10pc or more of the country feel uncomfortable and many major financial houses are leaving...for France, mostly, and Germany.

Cameron, after months of begging, finally persuaded Obama to go over and speak before the Brexit vote. So, many said they voted for Brexit to show the US that it can't interfere. Nonsense, as we all watched England, May, come over and throw herself at the US, Trump...well, they do need trading partners now. Who would have thunk it?

The UK voted to put Trump in his place at the UN. Good!
Gun laws are much better. Health care is available, but one reason Brexit prevailed is the Brits don't like waiting longer for appointments, 15 min waits are now 30 min or more, a thing brought on by immigration, so I hear three times a day when we are there.

I am ashamed of what this country has become too, and I consider leaving...not to Englad though.
England has no high ground...right now, anyway.
Think...Syria, Brexit .

Remember, the camps across the Channel, and England stood proud against the refugees, children and all.

If I could move to another country, maybe I would. England is little or no improvement though.

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
56. Of course.. Mentioned by me in a post up thread.
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 04:44 PM
Dec 2017

As to"culture" someone should ask her about the "Chav culture". and how impressive that is.
.
I especially like how, for credibility, she milks an "Americani" identity that's only 6 years old, too...She can stuff it.

paleotn

(17,778 posts)
20. True, but not new...
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 02:57 PM
Dec 2017

Americans have been willing to sell their souls for a buck for a couple centuries. Capitalism run amuck, where everyone thinks they can and will make it to the 1%, only to see their hopes dashed on the rocks of reality. Hell, even our religion is filled with such foolishness. It's unfortunate that we haven't learned from much older cultures that capitalism, like fire, can keep you warm, but unchecked can destroy you. Maybe someday we will, but I fear that will only come after our culture collapses from its own hubris.

enid602

(8,524 posts)
21. UK
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 02:57 PM
Dec 2017

The OP's logic is tantamount to saying that Brexit is a logical result of British culture. Many might indeed be tempted to say that the Brits' historical sense of superiority and xenophobia would keep them from committing fully to a concept like the EU. There's also the feeling that Britain participates only to the extent that it is personally benefitting from such an association. I, on the other hand feel that tRump and Brexit are the logical result of something else; namely, foreign intervention. I look forward to seeing both countries elect more sensible leadership who will cooperate to seek regime change in Russia.

The_jackalope

(1,660 posts)
24. Foreign intervention wouldn't have worked if the soil had not already been fertile.
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 03:07 PM
Dec 2017

It was really a combined effort. Society had already been pre-subverted to some degree, and Russian technological opportunism simply exploited the weakness - in both cases.

enid602

(8,524 posts)
40. Talent
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 03:51 PM
Dec 2017

And Putin does seem to have a talent for taking advantage and making good use of the most vulnerable citizens, both here and in England. And of course in Russia.

procon

(15,805 posts)
22. Absolutely spot on analysis of American society.
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 03:01 PM
Dec 2017

We are stuck in some sort of perpetual pioneer fiction story where everyone of is supposed to be a mystical John Wayne superhero character. The imaginary fantasy demands that true, red blooded Americans are expected to build a house with their own two hands, hunt for their supper, pop out a dozen kids whilst baking biscuits, and then die before they either got too old or too sick to become a burden to society.

In an increasingly complex world where technology and automation is driving innovation that is making manual skills obsolete, America is losing ground. More countries are finding the means to support and uplift their citizens so their populations are able to pursue the advanced skills needed today and become more educated to meet the needs of a fast changing future.

We can't compete when our workforce barely has a minimum high school education. We can't match the social development other countries provide as a basic benefit of living in a free and modern, progressive society.

The_jackalope

(1,660 posts)
23. Looking south from Ottawa, I agree with her.
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 03:05 PM
Dec 2017

I hold dual Canadian/US citizenship, but I've lived all my life up here. I acknowledge that my views have been strongly shaped by a traditional Canadian prairie-socialist anti-Americanism. However, I always thought that your ideals were noble and, however short you sometimes fell, that a potent segment of American society was committed to guarding their flame. Now it seems that segment consists mainly of senior federal law enforcement (!) and your intelligence community (!!!). I pray they have the firepower to hold the line, and that the idealistic side of America will emerge from the wreckage still carrying the torch.

"A nation that has been selling itself to itself" is such an apt description that I'm amazed this is the first time I've read it.

mnhtnbb

(31,315 posts)
25. I saw a bumper sticker on a truck this morning
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 03:16 PM
Dec 2017

at the store here in a very red part of NC

It said:

I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a libtard without nuts or a job.

The guy who owned the truck had been ahead of me in line at the cashier. He sent the clerk back twice to get the right cigarettes
for his wife. He had a beer belly that wouldn't stop: his gut was huge.


When I saw the bumper sticker on his truck I had to bite my tongue from telling him:

It's probably been a very long time since you've seen your tiny little nuts under that beer belly, you big pig.


It is Christmas, after all. So I said nothing.


Although I am 66, I am toying with the idea of moving to Europe when my divorce is final. Spain, Portugal, Italy, and France are possibilities.
Just don't know if I have the energy and patience to deal with a move like that at my age. But the US embarrasses me. How 63 million
people could vote for Trump is beyond depressing. If we don't deal with the fact that so many people in this country found him appealing
as President, well, we are in for a very hard fall and a very rough time for more than a generation when I will likely be dead.

Lonestarblue

(9,874 posts)
50. Also thinking of moving.
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 04:26 PM
Dec 2017

I have been giving more and more thought to moving to Europe myself. I hate what is happening to our country, and it is not all about Trump. The Republican Party is totally corrupt and will do anything to stay in power—and I do mean anything, legal or not. The right-wng evangelicals are out to establish their brand of religion as a requirement to be a citizen, and on the way to that goal they’ll sacrifice rights for women, gays, and minorities. Fox News and hate radio, plus any number of white supremacist sites, are poisoning the minds of the gullible who now think that white people are the most downtrodden souls in this country. And, to top it off, you can’t go out in public without some idiot hauling his gun around. I’m just tired of all the hatred, the anger, the fake religion, and the racism that seem to get worse day by day. Add the idiot in the White House and the Republican scum in Congress in the mix, and we have a bubbling cauldron of toxic waste. I apologize for being such a downer, but I really can’t stand the idea of continuing to live here through the rest of a Trump presidency. If Mueller does not bring him down and he is not impeached, I will be pcking up to move.

Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #25)

Jake Stern

(3,145 posts)
176. Funny thing his wife is probably the type to hate on "Moozlems"
Mon Dec 25, 2017, 12:58 AM
Dec 2017

But will eagerly follow the advice of Dr. Oz, a Turkish Muslim

StarzGuy

(254 posts)
27. The damage done seals the deal
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 03:23 PM
Dec 2017

America may never be the country that most of us thought it was to be. No more. Reality bites you in the ass. I became disabled in 2010, lost my job, lost my home, lost any savings and things have continued to go from bad to worse for me. I don't receive enough in my SSDI and small pension to ensure any meaningful life, however long or short time I have left on this planet.

I taught both high school and college geology and astronomy courses for nearly 35 years before I became disabled. Stupid me, I thought I was working to ensure a great America. I admit it I was wrong. Being marginalized, under paid and over expectations does not make for a better society. Money, money, and more money is the only thing Americans seem to care about. Screw anyone who are not part of the moneyed class. The harsh crash is coming. I only hope that I am no longer around to see the collapse of this society. Does Solient Green mean anything to anyone any more.

geretogo

(1,281 posts)
35. Sorry for your disability . I feel the same way. I'm retired and trying to live on less than 800.00
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 03:39 PM
Dec 2017

a month SS . I'm 70 and hope I pass away before before they put me on the street .

underpants

(182,270 posts)
29. This reminds me of X-Files episode last year "Mulder and Scully Meet the Were-Monster"
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 03:28 PM
Dec 2017

Part of the 6 episode season last year. One of the most brilliant pieces of writing I've seen on TV.

Guy Mann: Alas, I was human again. I went back to work. But now that I had a job, all I could think about was how much I hated my job. But I was too overcome with human fear to quit. How would I pay my bills? Without a job, I'd... I'd never get a loan and start a mortgage, whatever that is. Already I was terrified I wasn't saving enough for my retirement. And what else was I supposed to do?

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
31. Yes, because her superior Brit culture resulted in citizens voting to leave
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 03:33 PM
Dec 2017

Last edited Sat Dec 23, 2017, 07:42 PM - Edit history (1)

a European Union they were entirely ignorant of until a day AFTER they voted themselves out of it...Duuh..

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
37. ..and an outdated mentally mediocre Monarchy still payed up the nose for
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 03:44 PM
Dec 2017

Old chap.

Score: USA 1. Brits Zero.

The_jackalope

(1,660 posts)
38. I'd trade DJT for Queen Elizabeth II in a New York minute
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 03:48 PM
Dec 2017

The British monarchy is pretty benign compared to an oligarchic kleptocracy.

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
41. Lol.. That's unfortunate since we can throw DJT out, but the Royals are forever
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 04:01 PM
Dec 2017

Of course they're "benign" -- If one can truly call a large, continual, basically worthless tax burden "benign".

potone

(1,701 posts)
158. Even if you consider the Royal family a waste of money...
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 12:51 PM
Dec 2017

it costs peanuts to support them compared to what we waste money on in this country, starting with the obscenely bloated defense budget. That causes real harm in the money it diverts from social goods like guaranteed health care, education, infrastructure, etc.

The post starting this thread is true. That doesn't mean it can't change, but we have to face just how bad things have gotten, and how much worse they are likely to get, if we are going to change things for the better.

Merry Christmas to you, and a Happy New Year!

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
167. Lol..
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 02:32 PM
Dec 2017

It's all a matter of opinion, isn:t it?...I agree about the bloated military budget, but when compared to the Royal Family, one could argue that it at least does more than wave and open shopping centers.
No, I don't buy "the post starting this thread" as true
and I doubt that the 675,00 Brit expats who choose to live in the US would be "all in" with it either...Just saying.

mountain grammy

(26,568 posts)
33. Happy Holidays, Mari
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 03:33 PM
Dec 2017

And to all who manage to escape, but especially to those of us still here. Might be our last.

Saboburns

(2,807 posts)
43. Yes. Absolutely yes
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 04:02 PM
Dec 2017

And its getting worse not better. Quickly.

Things will get continue to get worse here, way worse, before they get better.

I daresay 20 years from now this country will be a seething, and evil mess.

Mme. Defarge

(7,981 posts)
47. So, let me get this straight -
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 04:19 PM
Dec 2017

Last edited Sat Dec 23, 2017, 04:50 PM - Edit history (3)

this person found all of this out after choosing to become a U.S. citizen? Like she was a victim of some kind of a bait and switch? Like America has never contributed anything of real worth to the world community, or even its own, and is thus undeserving of any consideration from those we believed were our friends in this time of extreme peril? Do remember that the “victim blaming” game can cut both ways.

But thanks for the memories, and don’t let that golden door hit you on the derrière on your way back across the Pond.

onetexan

(12,992 posts)
53. i agree with you
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 04:33 PM
Dec 2017

Britain has its own set of RWers...should we also state they're a product of British culture as well?

Someone once told me, "Every family has a trash can." meaning its own set of troubles members would like to throw out. This analogy can also be applied to every counry: Every country has its own set of troubles. This person shouldn't be dissing the US. We are a blend of cultures, good and bad, not just ONE single culture.

Ligyron

(7,592 posts)
52. We're the whole zero sum thing or whatever writ large.
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 04:30 PM
Dec 2017

American Style Capitalism: In order for me to gain you have to lose.

tavernier

(12,322 posts)
57. I picture Trump and family (GOP) as bad renters
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 04:44 PM
Dec 2017

in our home. As owners, we entered into a bad contract, and now we are reeling as we watch our house being vandalized, stripped of decades of hard work, systematically destroyed. The contract is binding, the “family” tells us, so we battle with the means that we have, hoping that once the contract ends and they are evicted, a few treasures will remain. But if not, we will still have the land, and hard lessons learned. With this knowledge we will be much more careful caretakers of our precious home in the future, and the “family” will never be allowed to step foot on our property again.

 

ollie10

(2,091 posts)
60. No, Donald Trump is NOT a logical result of American culture
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 04:51 PM
Dec 2017

His approval is in the thirties......

We are not all Trumpers, and he is more of an aberration than anything else.

Saying Trump is a logical result of American culture is just about as faulty a logic as to say Germans today are responsible for the rise of Hitler.

What's more he is going to be trounced in 2020 if he is not gone before then.

Yavin4

(35,354 posts)
63. Our values are fucked up. No question.
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 05:00 PM
Dec 2017

I am single with no kids, and when I see parents living in a constant state of stress, I am glad that I never had kids.

Yavin4

(35,354 posts)
78. I've been to other countries
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 07:53 PM
Dec 2017

And trust me, folks are far less stressed than here. Don't kid yourself.

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
80. Likely not as many as I have..
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 07:59 PM
Dec 2017

if you did, you'd realize they ARE as "stressed out" as we are, just about different things, so don't kid Yourself.

yardwork

(61,408 posts)
145. Most of the rest of the world supports families more.
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 11:23 AM
Dec 2017

In the developed world, people generally agree that it's beneficial to society - even the childless citizens - to provide help to parents and families by subsidizing child care, elder care, education, and health care. It's understood that children will have health care, that parents will have family leave to care for children and the elderly.

In poorer countries, I've observed that, while there is little subsidizing or even provision of care, the society as a whole enfolds and celebrates families.

The United States stands out as the only nation I can think of that has enough resources to care for everybody, but chooses not to. The OP is correct - we're a hyper competitive society that values winning above all else. The "weak" are despised as losers. This attitude is destroying our nation.

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
173. Most of what is being defined as "America" here, is really
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 06:06 PM
Dec 2017

the reflection of one particularly odious Party. I do not conflate them with the entire country.

 

shanny

(6,709 posts)
64. Couldn't agree more.
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 05:02 PM
Dec 2017

In fact, I'd say the capitalist dog-eat-dog mindset has been baked into the cake ever since the first colonists arrived on the newly "discovered" continent, killed many to take possession, enslaved others to enrich themselves, extracted the wealth from the garden of Eden...and claimed it was all because of their greater virtue.

Chickens, roosting.

Fiendish Thingy

(15,361 posts)
66. I love living here in BC!
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 05:10 PM
Dec 2017

While Canada is no Utopia, it's a breath of fresh air from the despair I felt from 2000-2012.

We expect to get our Canadian citizenship in 2018, and couldn't be happier about it.

I fear America is broken beyond repair, and while I will continue to speak out and resist, my self-preservation instincts take priority at this point in my life (I'm two years from retirement).

Best of luck to you in London!

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
73. She doesn't say why she came here...I'd guess it was a marriage
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 07:33 PM
Dec 2017

to an American and the marriage failed, so she "went home"... It would explain a lot.

VOX

(22,976 posts)
86. Are OP jodymarie aimee and Mari the same person? Why the third-person subject line?
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 08:14 PM
Dec 2017

Whoever Mari is, since she doesn't want to expend any effort to make the United States a better place for all, she should probably just leave quietly.

But Mari should know better that to generalize. Yes, there are a lot of really shitty Americans making headlines right now, but they are freaks, one-offs, and extraordinarily unpopular. Only 1/3 of the entire country likes Trump.

If our King Asshole is a "logical result" of anything, it's not the culture, it's his cognitive decline, his perpetual self-absorption, and his unbalanced temperament.

Enjoy London.

regnaD kciN

(26,035 posts)
89. Fine, but two words for you: Teresa. May.
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 08:32 PM
Dec 2017

If I were looking for somewhere to escape the encroaching far-right, the U.K. wouldn't currently be it.

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
95. So very well said. Without much of an outside viewpoint,
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 08:52 PM
Dec 2017

we don’t really understand there’s another way.

I’m glad it’s not the only way but....I’m sad that I can’t drop everything and move to Scotland, or Scandinavia.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
105. She's right. Sadly. Wish I could afford to move to Great Britain.
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 11:04 PM
Dec 2017

It's very expensive there, though. And I doubt they take American retirees, who will use their health care without having contributed for years like the locals.

mudstump

(342 posts)
106. It's embarrassing...
Sat Dec 23, 2017, 11:06 PM
Dec 2017

when I see Americans get up and say that we are the greatest country on Earth. I guess when you don't act great as a country you have to blow smoke with bs rhetoric. We're done.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
133. Ironically, it's usually Americans who have never been outside of this country.
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 01:37 AM
Dec 2017

Most people who have spent time abroad or who have lived in another country are not overly impressed with the United States.

Oneironaut

(5,461 posts)
156. That's an ignorant statement, imo. Visit any American city, and they'll be full of culture!
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 12:23 PM
Dec 2017

Each is different. Our culture has some problems, but to say that we have no culture at all is pretty silly.

I doubt the French actually say that. They're often portrayed as cultural and snobbish, but that's just a stereotype.

cilla4progress

(24,585 posts)
135. I completely agree and have felt it coming
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 02:21 AM
Dec 2017

For a long time. Do you have a long term prognosis?

Don’t forget - there are those of us here who reject this vulture capitalism. We are trapped. I imagine how others around the world have felt when malicious forces overtake them from within.

Stranger in a strange land.

 

melman

(7,681 posts)
175. It definitely does matter
Mon Dec 25, 2017, 12:05 AM
Dec 2017

It matters because people shouldn't try to pass off fake stuff as being real, and the lack of response makes it clear that there is no Mari

If someone wants to make a point about something they should just make it. Making up letters from made up people is BS.

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
143. Shes right.
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 10:03 AM
Dec 2017

Trump is the logical end result of the “fuck you, I’ve got mine” attitude that pervades our culture. It probably started with the southern strategy, but accelerated with right wing radio and Fox News.

lark

(22,993 posts)
150. Partially true, I think.
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 11:56 AM
Dec 2017

Yes, America is way too competitive and there is a huge streak of greed, racism, misogyny and ignorance. However, the fallacy is that drumpf won on his own merits because people wanted him. He did not. The majority of Americans voted against him, he only won due to Russia spending billions to destroy HRC and elect him. They also hacked the vote. He won by nearly identical margins in WI, MI and FL. Not possible for him to win by nearly the exact percentages in all those states. Also without the FBI interference, working with Guilliani, HRC would have won. The oligarchs and Russia, working in concert, stole this election.

former9thward

(31,798 posts)
151. So she moves back to a country that worships Kings and Queens.
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 12:04 PM
Dec 2017

And notes their every move. No thanks, she can have it....

 

Demit

(11,238 posts)
164. Do you really believe the British "worship" kings and queens?
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 01:23 PM
Dec 2017

Aside from honoring the Royals as a tradition that dates back centuries, it's more like how Americans follow the lives & activities of actors, athletes, and other people of note here. They're all national symbols, in a way, and we follow them & even sometimes identify with them without necessarily "worshipping" them.

Enoki33

(1,584 posts)
159. I agree this Presidency is a crime and therefore should logically be
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 12:52 PM
Dec 2017

illegitimate. Because it is has not been declared as such, at least so far, is going to be the wake up call we as a nation desperately need. This l truly believe. I also believe that wake up call will eventually result in getting big dark money out of politics, leveling the playing field, universal healthcare, more affordable education and a renewed reawakening of civic responsibilities. That is going to be the result of all the GOP corruption, crimes and betrayal that have disgraced this nation. 2018 will see the beginning of that tsunami and 2020 the culmination. I will stay, believe and resist with with every fiber of my being not to accept as inevitable the country which has become almost unrecognizable.
Happy Holidays all.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
160. Don't forget Hillary won the popular vote
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 12:58 PM
Dec 2017

It is the logical result of the Constitution, a non-parliamentary system. A big disadvantage is that it stops any change from happening unless a supermajority wants it. It took a Great Depression to create any safety net at all.

Whereas the Labor Party getting a majority means the PM will be from the Labor party. The Executive and Legislative branches are in sync. Our system allows complete independence of those two branches and either can stop the other. We got the ACA just barely and if we had not lost the supermajority, it would have included a public option.

There may be advantages to it vs. the parliamentary system, but right now I'm not sure of those. But this system does support the conservative, that is, no change.

Turbineguy

(37,206 posts)
165. The Palin family
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 01:28 PM
Dec 2017

seems to be asserting themselves. "We're a lot like the Trumps, just without any class what so ever!"

Sarah Palin would therefore be qualified as a republican candidate.

yuiyoshida

(41,759 posts)
166. I blame this country for allowing Hate Radio and Hate Network Fox News
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 01:47 PM
Dec 2017

none of this would have happened without Fox News.

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
174. So what was Obama?
Sun Dec 24, 2017, 06:22 PM
Dec 2017

an 'anomaly,, no doubt...To "mira" and her ilk, Trump is "the rule", though clearly the reverse is more likely... Haters gonna hate.

 

FreeStateDemocrat

(2,654 posts)
177. I was born here and if I had the money would blow out of Dodge in a heartbeat, all is lost even if
Mon Dec 25, 2017, 09:31 AM
Dec 2017

we foolishly think we still have a chance to recover. The puke takeover over and rule by one party edit over the last year, culminating with the huge wealth shift to the top 5%, ended our democratic experiment. It would take "blood on the asphalt" now and we don't have the gut to really resist.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»American Brit moved back ...