General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAmerican Brit moved back to London. "Trump is a logical result of your culture."
Mari
London|Dec. 22
I am an American, since 2011. I am also European. Moving to America in 2001, I read the history of the country I had now adopted - the Revolution, Civil War, Sixties Revolution, Caro's magisterial books on Robert Moses and LBJ. Living close to Concord, MA, I had plenty of local sources of US history and culture. However, I found the country in which I now lived to be a cold, occasionally vicious place; everything was for sale - including health care, which I had regarded as a basic human right in my European home. Employment law was totally skewed in favour of the Employer. No statutory Maternity Leave or even statutory vacation days! I quickly formed an impression of a people working and working harder just to keep up - getting deeper and deeper into debt to keep up their lifestyles and naively swallowing every marketing message that came their way - totally in thrall to Capital which just want to sell them more and more useless stuff and lend them more and more money to buy it. I moved back to Europe, having first become an American citizen (dual) and was appalled from a distance when Trump was elected - but not surprised. The US is a nation that has been selling itself to itself for a long time and has a 'weakest loses' culture - everyone is competing with everyone else in a dog-eat-dog society. There is no room left for civilised (with an 's'!) society. So this American, with a perspective formed outside it, can tell you that Trump is a logical result of your culture.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,057 posts)certainot
(9,090 posts)here's the simple math that is ignored every time liberals and political pundits and activists blame FOX and breitbart and russian social media trolling operations or 'economic anxiety' for this 30 year disaster leading to trump.
at a cheap $1000/hr x 15hrs/day x 5 = $75,000/wk x 1200 stations right wing talk radio is worth $18MIL/day or 390MIL$ /month or 4.68 BIL$/ year FREE for coordinated global warming denial, pro republican free market deregulation and wall st think tank propaganda, swiftboating of good citizens, attacks on public education and teachers, passing voter suppression legislation, trying to repeal obamacare, and the hate and fear used to get people to vote republican.
fox and money in politics and media consolidation are symptoms of continuing the biggest political mistake in history - ignoring 300 ignorant think tank-scripted blowhards on 1500 radio stations reaching 50 mil americans a week while they trash good people and liberal ideals and kick dem/left ass for billionaires while pretending its popular sentiment.
the absurdity of ignoring rw radio is exemplified in the fact that liberal activists and progressive orgs ignore the fact that 88 universities (at least) broadcast sports (majority black athletes) on/support 257 of those stations while they spew racism all day.
and i hope that british american doesn't ignore talk radio in england selling brexit all day, supported by russian trolls (was it?)
Dustlawyer
(10,493 posts)Representatives to be legally bribed by the rich and powerful. What did we expect would happen?
certainot
(9,090 posts)military style propaganda operation - kremlin/gop > talk radio > fox > trump
a chorus of 300 liars led by limbaugh who's on 600 of 1500 radio stations and they all repeat the same when needed, hiding behind call screeners and prompted by paid callers.
and the left thinks it represents DEMAND, while repubs enforce a 95% monopoly and run clearchannel with $20 bil in debt
and dems ignore it and blame fox
whathehell
(28,968 posts)and we can expect to keep losing if they don't get with the program
janterry
(4,429 posts)We do some things well. But many things, even most things, IDK.
I'm so embarrassed.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,153 posts)We admire y'all in so many ways. Hollywood has created great masterpieces, and at times still puts out amazing work. Music, from early jazz to blues to rocknroll so many incredible artists. Writers, comedians and visual artists. Many of whom have pushed the boundaries to move society, even the global society, forward. And running through your society there also is a great optimism, a great work ethic, and open friendly people.
Its such a shame that all of that gets lost in the diabolical machinations of a few dark souls that have the power.
whathehell
(28,968 posts)Thank you..The sour ones are free to leave.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)Not sour. Just outraged that we no longer have a civilization. Somehow I don't define civilized as being sour.
We aren't FDR's country anymore. And in most ways, we never were for people of color.
whathehell
(28,968 posts)then you might realize that "civilization" is in decline all over.
Susan Calvin
(1,644 posts)whathehell
(28,968 posts)I'd call it a matter of opinion.
Susan Calvin
(1,644 posts)Not to mention I disagree with your opinion.
whathehell
(28,968 posts)Susan Calvin
(1,644 posts)zentrum
(9,865 posts)...matter of being well traveled in the 1st world, which btw, I am.
Perhaps you are not aware that there are sections of Los Angeles which are absolutley equivalent to the 3rd world? With 15,000 homelss children concentrated in an urban area?
zentrum
(9,865 posts)
..you're unaware that in England and other European countries, elections are publicly funded. Politicians are not allowed to accept money from private entities. The election cycle is limited and not linked to endless media buys.
Perhaps you're unaware that our congress has basically become a kind of crime syndicate with favors granted, based on bribery. Which causes our "leaders" to spend more time fund-raising during the course of a year than doing legislation that would actually keep our country intact. So who really runs our government?
Perhaps you're unaware that we have higher rates of infant death, maternity death, die younger, and score lower in math/reading/science scores.
Perhaps you heard that our CDC has banned words including the words "diversity" and "vulnerable"? And that our EPA is denying climate change?
All so civilized!
whathehell
(28,968 posts)You've made unwarranted assumptions about my knowledge of US problems.. Perhaps I'm well aware, but view them in a more balanced manner than some angsty, anonymous expat or American who knows ONLY of "our" problems and little to nothing of those elsewhere.
In regard to our congress, perhaps you're unaware of the huge lobbying industry in Brussels that solicits the European Parliament.
Perhaps you don't know that, in addition to it, there is "special interest" legislation produced within each and every EU nation
and that it's as subject to bribery and corruption as that produced elsewhere. By way of some verification, you might ask any German national what became of The Berlin Airport that Was Never Built...
I'll let you digest some of that before moving on. Merry Christmas.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)
in kind, to your assumption expressed earlier, that I and others here had not traveled. And, unlike you, I leave open the question as to whether or not the lucky expat Brit posting here is aware of our history and our aspirations. I suspect s/he is.
Yes, each country has great flaws since Neo-liberalism is taking over the entire world.
Nonetheless, it really cannot be denied that the European countries do have a greater sense of The Commons (which, as I'm sure you know, is another way of describing being an actual Civilization); and stronger trade and union movements, which prevent the entire enterprise from being only a mercantile corporate state, as ours very nearly is. I notice you do not address my points about childhood homelessness, nor the 3rd world conditions we have in one of our richest cities (though such conditions exist throughout the country). Nor do you reference the denial of science, the denial of climate change. Hardly an advanced culture, that.
Finally, in terms of demonstrating how America has become a Lesser Civilization, I have two words for you: Donald Trump.
Happy Hanukkah.
whathehell
(28,968 posts)Unfortunately for your hopes of making a point, your "two words"
pertain to only One year of America -- Next.
P.S. Hanukkah's over -- try to keep up.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)I have lived "all over". You seem to have the impression that everyone is going down with the ship, each country with its own individual reason. That would be incorrect. There are a lot of reasons for global decline but most stem from the socially backward, educationally insufficient, downward spiral of the good old US of A. The US is leading the pack downward because of its military power, ill-gotten loot and non-global thinking. The US is by no means the beacon of an advanced civilization. I can think of several countries that are at least moving the right direction like Norway, Slovenia, Sweden, Iceland, France, even Italy far outclasses the US in most things that support the common human being.
And we have Trump, the GOP and the .1% in control. It's embarrassing and disgusting.
whathehell
(28,968 posts)"It's all because of us"?
You're impression is incorrect -- I have traveled widely and have lived outside the country as well. In addition, I've never claimed the US to he a "beacon of civilization"..That said, I'm not about to bow my head in mea culpas because some anonymous, self superior expat felt like venting her spleen. Like most here, I'm doing my best to improve things, but I've no appetite for humble pie -- If you do, have at it.
Susan Calvin
(1,644 posts)whathehell
(28,968 posts)Buh bye again.
Susan Calvin
(1,644 posts)Buh bye.
whathehell
(28,968 posts)Last edited Sun Dec 24, 2017, 04:52 AM - Edit history (1)
Buh bye too.
Susan Calvin
(1,644 posts)Sophia4
(3,515 posts)I have. The economic system varies from country to country (lived in four of them), but is better there than here although I think that Americans are wonderful people, probably nicer and friendlier than Europeans.
But our economic system is brutal and cruel to many of us. It just is.
The personal kindness of Americans does not make up for that fact from the perspective of the poor. Charity is nice. But the security that a poor person enjoys when he/she lives in a less winner-takes-all society is worth any drawbacks their systems have.
It's all a matter of balance. But a person cannot have dignity when he or she has to stand out in front of a gas station or at a street corner and beg for the money for food and then sleep in a makeshift tent or just on the street in the cold at night.
And how can a person participate in a truly meaningful way in our democratic process when he or she has no dignity, must beg for food and sleep on the street?
The homelessness in our society is a sure giveaway about the corruption and cruelty of it.
whathehell
(28,968 posts)and I don't know where or when you lived in Europe, but I"m surprised that you don't seem to know that homelessness exists there as well.
This is a particularly bad time in our country -- The worst I've seen it and I'm in my sixties. That said, we're not the only country to go through a bad period, and I'm not willing to judge it on that basis.
Doodley
(8,976 posts)automatic right to good healthcare access? What value do we put on women if they do not have the right to earn the same money as a man for doing the same job? What value do we place on the environment if we stick two fingers up to the rest of the world and reverse existing protections? As a nation, we do not share the same values as Western Europe.
Everything is cheap. The houses are flimsily made. The roads have potholes. The bridges are crumbling. Millions do not have healthcare. But where are our values? Investing in our people and our nation or giving more to those who already have more than enough?
OliverQ
(3,363 posts)I've had it with this country. Owned by the rich and corporations with corruption at 3rd world levels. This isn't the greatest country in the world anymore, and likely never will be again.
whathehell
(28,968 posts)I guess you haven't been following British politics very closely, have you?
virgogal
(10,178 posts)to people that want to come here.
This person lived in Concord,MA------a very wealthy town----full of capitalism
.
Crunchy Frog
(26,548 posts)TryLogic
(1,721 posts)whathehell
(28,968 posts)That said, if you find a country you like better... The door is always open, as they say.
..
Susan Calvin
(1,644 posts)I believe we're the only country in the industrialized world that does not have single-payer or socialized health care.
And I sure like that Germany requires union representation on corporate boards.
That said, I wouldn't want to move to Poland right now.
BannonsLiver
(16,161 posts)I remember hearing that a lot during the early days of Ws Iraq debacle. From flag waving republicans. It was low grade low info bullshit then too.
whathehell
(28,968 posts)Whining and crying? Pissing and moaning?.. Self-flagellating at the altar of some anonymous, self superior expat?
You can eat that shit sandwich, bro, but I'm guessing most of us will pass.
Susan Calvin
(1,644 posts)whathehell
(28,968 posts)Doodley
(8,976 posts)NJCher
(35,421 posts)to get out, but it's not so easy getting in to another country.
whathehell
(28,968 posts)Gotta start somewhere.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Other countries have immigration restrictions too.
whathehell
(28,968 posts)Her lovely country of origin is not a shining contrast to ours, as others here have noted.
Crunchy Frog
(26,548 posts)whathehell
(28,968 posts)Back at You.
Crunchy Frog
(26,548 posts)zentrum
(9,865 posts)
in England than here.
Our upward flow is just another one the myths we're fed.
whathehell
(28,968 posts)Jake Stern
(3,145 posts)There is nothing in our constitution that bars a Muslim, or Jew or Catholic from becoming president but they are prohibited from taking the British throne. No president would have to choose between their office and the woman they love (cf. Edward VIII) . Most importantly I believe that nobody should become head of state by being the child of the last one.
Crunchy Frog
(26,548 posts)The Prime Minister is the closest analogue to the American president, and anyone can theoretically become PM.
It's just as well that Edward VIII had to abdicate, as he was a Nazi sympathizer and possibly collaborator.
Jake Stern
(3,145 posts)for example the President of Germany has very little power but the office can be held by a German of any race or religion. One day there might be a Muslim President in Germany. One day there might be a president of African heritage.
The monarch of the United Kingdom MUST be an Anglican as the monarch of the Netherlands MUST be a member of the Protestant Church of the Netherlands and the monarch of Spain MUST be a Catholic.
Second, what is the point of keeping a King or Queen? Just allow a Prime Minister to hold the head of state and head of government roles and cut out the over-indulged, pampered royals.
Seems fair to me.
Crunchy Frog
(26,548 posts)just that it's not as bad as a quasi-fascist Republican party. At least that's my opinion, you're perfectly free to disagree with me.
It seems like it's ultimately the choice of the British people, for whom the monarchy still seems to be pretty popular.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)You do know the British monarchy is NOT in charge, right?
You know this, right?
If not, please do some research.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Though even they are less conservative than the Republicans.
treestar
(82,383 posts)They have a similar vibe, racists in the hinterlands. I would say the Parliamentary system is the only reason they have health care. Canada, Australia, and New Zealand have it because of that. The executive and legislature from the same party and a simple majority are enough. Our Senate prevents any change unless a supermajority wants it.
RKP5637
(67,030 posts)just like him. It's really a country falling apart for the majority of citizens. It's about a country feeding money and resources to a small group. It will not end well.
AmericanActivist
(1,019 posts)Aristus
(66,075 posts)I first realized we were going off the rails back in the 90's, when I first heard the saying "Second place is the first loser."
Granted, it was a slogan designed to sell athletic shoes. But still, it dismissed the years of training, exertion, studying, practicing, and sacrificing an athlete may put in in order to compete, as meaningless if they didn't finish in first place. Silver medals, bronze medals, ribbons, laurels, standing on the platform listening to a national anthem, congratulating your fellow athletes, making your friends and family proud, all apparently worthless in a win-win-win culture where only first prize has any meaning.
I'm a natural-born citizen, not a naturalized citizen like Mari. But I'm thinking of getting out of here, and shaking the dust of this place from my feet. We've become a cartoon of a country.
PatSeg
(46,773 posts)when I was 19, someone said to me, "Nice guys finish last". I had never heard the phrase before, though it quickly became a common cliche. It was said as a joke, but it was clear that it was becoming a prevalent attitude among Americans.
Over the years I saw people become more aggressive and materialistic. Kindness, compassion, and charity were quaint, but obsolete notions, that we enjoyed in old movies around the holidays, but not in real life. It's a Wonderful Life, Going My Way, and Boystown no longer represent ideals to aspire to. Honesty, decency, and integrity are often viewed as weaknesses, as they have no monetary value.
We started losing our way a long time ago and I suppose that Trump could be viewed as an inevitable result.
Susan Calvin
(1,644 posts)Also Horatio Alger is not what some people think.
PatSeg
(46,773 posts)"Nice guys finish last" is more of an excuse for being an asshole.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,267 posts)And yet we (by "we" I mean the population and culture in general) have been conditioned to believe that this is the best, greatest, freest, etc., country on earth and that the people in all those other countries are benighted and their cultures and governments are primitive and oppressive. I guess it's like being a fish; you don't really notice the water you're swimming in.
I grew up in the '50s and '60s, when WWII was a recent memory for most adults. In school we learned that the United States single-handedly saved the world from the Nazis and that now we were the sole bulwark against the Red Menace. We also learned about how the intrepid white settlers conquered the savage Indians in order to build a great, rich nation. We learned a little about slavery and the Civil War, too; but we were told only that Lincoln freed the slaves so everything was OK now.
So we, as a people (at least of my generation), were constantly patting ourselves on the back, raving about how great we were, and brainwashing school children to that effect. It wasn't until the Vietnam war went totally south, along with the truths revealed by the civil rights movement, that some of us started questioning our national awesomeness. Even so, the underlying culture of fanatical individualism and festering racism still persists - and now, with Trump giving it his imprimatur as president, it's worse than ever.
I really don't know what to do any more.
saidsimplesimon
(7,888 posts)Mari would not say that ONLY the US has drifted into the abyss of cult worship, money, power and sex. I wish Mari the best in transforming England.
Demit
(11,238 posts)Lucky Mari.
whathehell
(28,968 posts)by the Conservatives in her own country...Just sayin'.
Demit
(11,238 posts)Just sayin, backatcha.
whathehell
(28,968 posts)Last edited Sat Dec 23, 2017, 04:44 PM - Edit history (1)
I hear there's constant attempts to underfund the National Health System.:
whathehell
(28,968 posts)So many here are lacking it.
MrScorpio
(73,626 posts)If I could, Id be moving to Amsterdam my damn self.
whathehell
(28,968 posts)Mari can blow it out her ass, AFAIC.
Heartstrings
(7,349 posts)That was a painfully accurate assessment. Sad.
spooky3
(34,300 posts)The area where she appeared to spend the most time and do the most reading about is among the bluest parts of the nation.
Mariana
(14,847 posts)Stuff like killing Obamacare, or slashing Social Security and Medicare affect people in blue states equally.
spooky3
(34,300 posts)But my point is that the cause effect logic is puzzling to me. If the free wheeling economic system produced Trump, how did it produce Obama, and a majority vote for Clinton? And if the system is essentially the same across the US and causes Trump, why do we have states that vary tremendously in blue to red?
Mariana
(14,847 posts)My husband is from England, and he sometimes says similar things (we live in MA, too). The writer is generalizing and making an overall comparison of the two cultures from the writer's point of view. I imagine the decision was partly based on subjective feelings instead of cold hard cause and effect logic. Trump was probably just the last straw.
Kogaratsu72
(53 posts)But what is perceived in the US as the Democratic Party as being left, socialist even, is not what is the European reality. If you compare the Democratic Party's program with the European ones, it ends at the right or even far right! 20 days of paid holidays, four month maternity leave, single payer social and healthcare (the list goes on) are all statutaire rights of every citizen in most European countries....
world wide wally
(21,718 posts)Then he pumped 6 more shots into it to make sure
mountain grammy
(26,568 posts)raccoon
(31,088 posts)Leith
(7,802 posts)She's not wrong.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I would move to Europe if I could. I lived in Austria for a semester in college and loved it. I was so depressed when I had to come home. I burst into tears as I left Vienna and I burst into tears again the moment I landed at JFK. I could feel the stress, anixety, competitiveness, me-first attitude all around me. It was like reverse culture-shock in my own culture. For months afterward, I continued to have horrible anxiety attacks.
whathehell
(28,968 posts)In any case, a college semester in a country is not like actually "living" in it, especially as an adult, not to mention a foreigner.
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)whathehell
(28,968 posts)nycbos
(6,032 posts)As Borowitz put it.
British Lose Right to Claim That Americans Are Dumber
But I hold out hope that, come November, Americans could become dumber than us once more.
saidsimplesimon
(7,888 posts)Dumb or Dumber, that is the question? The Brits passed a referendum that destroys both their claims to superior moral and economic values with Brexit. The alt-right is not in the best interests of the Queen, or England. Wake up Britannia
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)citizenship, hails from London, and we are in London often.
Racists are out in the open at the pubs, and they have been in England for years.
I heard over and over that Brexit was Obama's fault! This, from the same people who voted for it, and now they are realizing that they are not getting anywhere near what they wanted...to get rid of the nasty immigrants, from Eastern Europe to Africa. Geez, who would have thought that property values would fall after they made
10pc or more of the country feel uncomfortable and many major financial houses are leaving...for France, mostly, and Germany.
Cameron, after months of begging, finally persuaded Obama to go over and speak before the Brexit vote. So, many said they voted for Brexit to show the US that it can't interfere. Nonsense, as we all watched England, May, come over and throw herself at the US, Trump...well, they do need trading partners now. Who would have thunk it?
The UK voted to put Trump in his place at the UN. Good!
Gun laws are much better. Health care is available, but one reason Brexit prevailed is the Brits don't like waiting longer for appointments, 15 min waits are now 30 min or more, a thing brought on by immigration, so I hear three times a day when we are there.
I am ashamed of what this country has become too, and I consider leaving...not to Englad though.
England has no high ground...right now, anyway.
Think...Syria, Brexit .
Remember, the camps across the Channel, and England stood proud against the refugees, children and all.
If I could move to another country, maybe I would. England is little or no improvement though.
whathehell
(28,968 posts)As to"culture" someone should ask her about the "Chav culture". and how impressive that is.
.
I especially like how, for credibility, she milks an "Americani" identity that's only 6 years old, too...She can stuff it.
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)paleotn
(17,778 posts)Americans have been willing to sell their souls for a buck for a couple centuries. Capitalism run amuck, where everyone thinks they can and will make it to the 1%, only to see their hopes dashed on the rocks of reality. Hell, even our religion is filled with such foolishness. It's unfortunate that we haven't learned from much older cultures that capitalism, like fire, can keep you warm, but unchecked can destroy you. Maybe someday we will, but I fear that will only come after our culture collapses from its own hubris.
enid602
(8,524 posts)The OP's logic is tantamount to saying that Brexit is a logical result of British culture. Many might indeed be tempted to say that the Brits' historical sense of superiority and xenophobia would keep them from committing fully to a concept like the EU. There's also the feeling that Britain participates only to the extent that it is personally benefitting from such an association. I, on the other hand feel that tRump and Brexit are the logical result of something else; namely, foreign intervention. I look forward to seeing both countries elect more sensible leadership who will cooperate to seek regime change in Russia.
The_jackalope
(1,660 posts)It was really a combined effort. Society had already been pre-subverted to some degree, and Russian technological opportunism simply exploited the weakness - in both cases.
enid602
(8,524 posts)And Putin does seem to have a talent for taking advantage and making good use of the most vulnerable citizens, both here and in England. And of course in Russia.
procon
(15,805 posts)We are stuck in some sort of perpetual pioneer fiction story where everyone of is supposed to be a mystical John Wayne superhero character. The imaginary fantasy demands that true, red blooded Americans are expected to build a house with their own two hands, hunt for their supper, pop out a dozen kids whilst baking biscuits, and then die before they either got too old or too sick to become a burden to society.
In an increasingly complex world where technology and automation is driving innovation that is making manual skills obsolete, America is losing ground. More countries are finding the means to support and uplift their citizens so their populations are able to pursue the advanced skills needed today and become more educated to meet the needs of a fast changing future.
We can't compete when our workforce barely has a minimum high school education. We can't match the social development other countries provide as a basic benefit of living in a free and modern, progressive society.
The_jackalope
(1,660 posts)I hold dual Canadian/US citizenship, but I've lived all my life up here. I acknowledge that my views have been strongly shaped by a traditional Canadian prairie-socialist anti-Americanism. However, I always thought that your ideals were noble and, however short you sometimes fell, that a potent segment of American society was committed to guarding their flame. Now it seems that segment consists mainly of senior federal law enforcement (!) and your intelligence community (!!!). I pray they have the firepower to hold the line, and that the idealistic side of America will emerge from the wreckage still carrying the torch.
"A nation that has been selling itself to itself" is such an apt description that I'm amazed this is the first time I've read it.
yonder
(9,631 posts)mnhtnbb
(31,315 posts)at the store here in a very red part of NC
It said:
I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a libtard without nuts or a job.
The guy who owned the truck had been ahead of me in line at the cashier. He sent the clerk back twice to get the right cigarettes
for his wife. He had a beer belly that wouldn't stop: his gut was huge.
When I saw the bumper sticker on his truck I had to bite my tongue from telling him:
It's probably been a very long time since you've seen your tiny little nuts under that beer belly, you big pig.
It is Christmas, after all. So I said nothing.
Although I am 66, I am toying with the idea of moving to Europe when my divorce is final. Spain, Portugal, Italy, and France are possibilities.
Just don't know if I have the energy and patience to deal with a move like that at my age. But the US embarrasses me. How 63 million
people could vote for Trump is beyond depressing. If we don't deal with the fact that so many people in this country found him appealing
as President, well, we are in for a very hard fall and a very rough time for more than a generation when I will likely be dead.
roamer65
(36,739 posts)Lonestarblue
(9,874 posts)I have been giving more and more thought to moving to Europe myself. I hate what is happening to our country, and it is not all about Trump. The Republican Party is totally corrupt and will do anything to stay in powerand I do mean anything, legal or not. The right-wng evangelicals are out to establish their brand of religion as a requirement to be a citizen, and on the way to that goal theyll sacrifice rights for women, gays, and minorities. Fox News and hate radio, plus any number of white supremacist sites, are poisoning the minds of the gullible who now think that white people are the most downtrodden souls in this country. And, to top it off, you cant go out in public without some idiot hauling his gun around. Im just tired of all the hatred, the anger, the fake religion, and the racism that seem to get worse day by day. Add the idiot in the White House and the Republican scum in Congress in the mix, and we have a bubbling cauldron of toxic waste. I apologize for being such a downer, but I really cant stand the idea of continuing to live here through the rest of a Trump presidency. If Mueller does not bring him down and he is not impeached, I will be pcking up to move.
Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #25)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Jake Stern
(3,145 posts)But will eagerly follow the advice of Dr. Oz, a Turkish Muslim
StarzGuy
(254 posts)America may never be the country that most of us thought it was to be. No more. Reality bites you in the ass. I became disabled in 2010, lost my job, lost my home, lost any savings and things have continued to go from bad to worse for me. I don't receive enough in my SSDI and small pension to ensure any meaningful life, however long or short time I have left on this planet.
I taught both high school and college geology and astronomy courses for nearly 35 years before I became disabled. Stupid me, I thought I was working to ensure a great America. I admit it I was wrong. Being marginalized, under paid and over expectations does not make for a better society. Money, money, and more money is the only thing Americans seem to care about. Screw anyone who are not part of the moneyed class. The harsh crash is coming. I only hope that I am no longer around to see the collapse of this society. Does Solient Green mean anything to anyone any more.
geretogo
(1,281 posts)a month SS . I'm 70 and hope I pass away before before they put me on the street .
Chasstev365
(5,191 posts)whathehell
(28,968 posts)I don't think you're correct there.
Chasstev365
(5,191 posts)whathehell
(28,968 posts)underpants
(182,270 posts)Part of the 6 episode season last year. One of the most brilliant pieces of writing I've seen on TV.
Guy Mann: Alas, I was human again. I went back to work. But now that I had a job, all I could think about was how much I hated my job. But I was too overcome with human fear to quit. How would I pay my bills? Without a job, I'd... I'd never get a loan and start a mortgage, whatever that is. Already I was terrified I wasn't saving enough for my retirement. And what else was I supposed to do?
whathehell
(28,968 posts)Last edited Sat Dec 23, 2017, 07:42 PM - Edit history (1)
a European Union they were entirely ignorant of until a day AFTER they voted themselves out of it...Duuh..
The_jackalope
(1,660 posts)Score: Britain 1, USA Nil.
whathehell
(28,968 posts)Old chap.
Score: USA 1. Brits Zero.
The_jackalope
(1,660 posts)The British monarchy is pretty benign compared to an oligarchic kleptocracy.
whathehell
(28,968 posts)Of course they're "benign" -- If one can truly call a large, continual, basically worthless tax burden "benign".
mdbl
(4,972 posts)if he's thrown in jail.
whathehell
(28,968 posts)Both possibilities are looking good at the moment.
potone
(1,701 posts)it costs peanuts to support them compared to what we waste money on in this country, starting with the obscenely bloated defense budget. That causes real harm in the money it diverts from social goods like guaranteed health care, education, infrastructure, etc.
The post starting this thread is true. That doesn't mean it can't change, but we have to face just how bad things have gotten, and how much worse they are likely to get, if we are going to change things for the better.
Merry Christmas to you, and a Happy New Year!
whathehell
(28,968 posts)It's all a matter of opinion, isn:t it?...I agree about the bloated military budget, but when compared to the Royal Family, one could argue that it at least does more than wave and open shopping centers.
No, I don't buy "the post starting this thread" as true
and I doubt that the 675,00 Brit expats who choose to live in the US would be "all in" with it either...Just saying.
geretogo
(1,281 posts)mountain grammy
(26,568 posts)And to all who manage to escape, but especially to those of us still here. Might be our last.
samnsara
(17,569 posts)Saboburns
(2,807 posts)And its getting worse not better. Quickly.
Things will get continue to get worse here, way worse, before they get better.
I daresay 20 years from now this country will be a seething, and evil mess.
bucolic_frolic
(42,651 posts)can we interest you in discount coupons on vacation travel?
Mme. Defarge
(7,981 posts)Last edited Sat Dec 23, 2017, 04:50 PM - Edit history (3)
this person found all of this out after choosing to become a U.S. citizen? Like she was a victim of some kind of a bait and switch? Like America has never contributed anything of real worth to the world community, or even its own, and is thus undeserving of any consideration from those we believed were our friends in this time of extreme peril? Do remember that the victim blaming game can cut both ways.
But thanks for the memories, and dont let that golden door hit you on the derrière on your way back across the Pond.
onetexan
(12,992 posts)Britain has its own set of RWers...should we also state they're a product of British culture as well?
Someone once told me, "Every family has a trash can." meaning its own set of troubles members would like to throw out. This analogy can also be applied to every counry: Every country has its own set of troubles. This person shouldn't be dissing the US. We are a blend of cultures, good and bad, not just ONE single culture.
Ligyron
(7,592 posts)American Style Capitalism: In order for me to gain you have to lose.
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)tavernier
(12,322 posts)in our home. As owners, we entered into a bad contract, and now we are reeling as we watch our house being vandalized, stripped of decades of hard work, systematically destroyed. The contract is binding, the family tells us, so we battle with the means that we have, hoping that once the contract ends and they are evicted, a few treasures will remain. But if not, we will still have the land, and hard lessons learned. With this knowledge we will be much more careful caretakers of our precious home in the future, and the family will never be allowed to step foot on our property again.
ollie10
(2,091 posts)His approval is in the thirties......
We are not all Trumpers, and he is more of an aberration than anything else.
Saying Trump is a logical result of American culture is just about as faulty a logic as to say Germans today are responsible for the rise of Hitler.
What's more he is going to be trounced in 2020 if he is not gone before then.
Yavin4
(35,354 posts)I am single with no kids, and when I see parents living in a constant state of stress, I am glad that I never had kids.
whathehell
(28,968 posts)Yavin4
(35,354 posts)And trust me, folks are far less stressed than here. Don't kid yourself.
whathehell
(28,968 posts)if you did, you'd realize they ARE as "stressed out" as we are, just about different things, so don't kid Yourself.
yardwork
(61,408 posts)In the developed world, people generally agree that it's beneficial to society - even the childless citizens - to provide help to parents and families by subsidizing child care, elder care, education, and health care. It's understood that children will have health care, that parents will have family leave to care for children and the elderly.
In poorer countries, I've observed that, while there is little subsidizing or even provision of care, the society as a whole enfolds and celebrates families.
The United States stands out as the only nation I can think of that has enough resources to care for everybody, but chooses not to. The OP is correct - we're a hyper competitive society that values winning above all else. The "weak" are despised as losers. This attitude is destroying our nation.
whathehell
(28,968 posts)the reflection of one particularly odious Party. I do not conflate them with the entire country.
shanny
(6,709 posts)In fact, I'd say the capitalist dog-eat-dog mindset has been baked into the cake ever since the first colonists arrived on the newly "discovered" continent, killed many to take possession, enslaved others to enrich themselves, extracted the wealth from the garden of Eden...and claimed it was all because of their greater virtue.
Chickens, roosting.
melman
(7,681 posts)Who is Mari and where does this come from?
Fiendish Thingy
(15,361 posts)While Canada is no Utopia, it's a breath of fresh air from the despair I felt from 2000-2012.
We expect to get our Canadian citizenship in 2018, and couldn't be happier about it.
I fear America is broken beyond repair, and while I will continue to speak out and resist, my self-preservation instincts take priority at this point in my life (I'm two years from retirement).
Best of luck to you in London!
whathehell
(28,968 posts)to an American and the marriage failed, so she "went home"... It would explain a lot.
LeftishBrit
(41,190 posts)VOX
(22,976 posts)Whoever Mari is, since she doesn't want to expend any effort to make the United States a better place for all, she should probably just leave quietly.
But Mari should know better that to generalize. Yes, there are a lot of really shitty Americans making headlines right now, but they are freaks, one-offs, and extraordinarily unpopular. Only 1/3 of the entire country likes Trump.
If our King Asshole is a "logical result" of anything, it's not the culture, it's his cognitive decline, his perpetual self-absorption, and his unbalanced temperament.
Enjoy London.
regnaD kciN
(26,035 posts)If I were looking for somewhere to escape the encroaching far-right, the U.K. wouldn't currently be it.
Quemado
(1,262 posts)that I disagree with you.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)we dont really understand theres another way.
Im glad its not the only way but....Im sad that I cant drop everything and move to Scotland, or Scandinavia.
Eyeball_Kid
(7,410 posts)mudstump
(342 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)It's very expensive there, though. And I doubt they take American retirees, who will use their health care without having contributed for years like the locals.
mudstump
(342 posts)when I see Americans get up and say that we are the greatest country on Earth. I guess when you don't act great as a country you have to blow smoke with bs rhetoric. We're done.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Most people who have spent time abroad or who have lived in another country are not overly impressed with the United States.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)I agree and I have the perspecive to know it.
sl8
(13,584 posts)Xipe Totec
(43,872 posts)is that yogurt has culture.
Oneironaut
(5,461 posts)Each is different. Our culture has some problems, but to say that we have no culture at all is pretty silly.
I doubt the French actually say that. They're often portrayed as cultural and snobbish, but that's just a stereotype.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Pepsidog
(6,252 posts)Pepsidog
(6,252 posts)Looks like someone told Uncle Sam he had no clothes on!!
old guy
(3,281 posts)you can't dispute any of it. Sigh.
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)cilla4progress
(24,585 posts)For a long time. Do you have a long term prognosis?
Dont forget - there are those of us here who reject this vulture capitalism. We are trapped. I imagine how others around the world have felt when malicious forces overtake them from within.
Stranger in a strange land.
melman
(7,681 posts)Who wrote this?
What is the source of this and who is Mari?
Doodley
(8,976 posts)melman
(7,681 posts)It matters because people shouldn't try to pass off fake stuff as being real, and the lack of response makes it clear that there is no Mari
If someone wants to make a point about something they should just make it. Making up letters from made up people is BS.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)Trump is the logical end result of the fuck you, Ive got mine attitude that pervades our culture. It probably started with the southern strategy, but accelerated with right wing radio and Fox News.
Persondem
(1,936 posts)... with Reagan.
lark
(22,993 posts)Yes, America is way too competitive and there is a huge streak of greed, racism, misogyny and ignorance. However, the fallacy is that drumpf won on his own merits because people wanted him. He did not. The majority of Americans voted against him, he only won due to Russia spending billions to destroy HRC and elect him. They also hacked the vote. He won by nearly identical margins in WI, MI and FL. Not possible for him to win by nearly the exact percentages in all those states. Also without the FBI interference, working with Guilliani, HRC would have won. The oligarchs and Russia, working in concert, stole this election.
former9thward
(31,798 posts)And notes their every move. No thanks, she can have it....
Doodley
(8,976 posts)Demit
(11,238 posts)Aside from honoring the Royals as a tradition that dates back centuries, it's more like how Americans follow the lives & activities of actors, athletes, and other people of note here. They're all national symbols, in a way, and we follow them & even sometimes identify with them without necessarily "worshipping" them.
former9thward
(31,798 posts)She can have it with open arms.
Enoki33
(1,584 posts)illegitimate. Because it is has not been declared as such, at least so far, is going to be the wake up call we as a nation desperately need. This l truly believe. I also believe that wake up call will eventually result in getting big dark money out of politics, leveling the playing field, universal healthcare, more affordable education and a renewed reawakening of civic responsibilities. That is going to be the result of all the GOP corruption, crimes and betrayal that have disgraced this nation. 2018 will see the beginning of that tsunami and 2020 the culmination. I will stay, believe and resist with with every fiber of my being not to accept as inevitable the country which has become almost unrecognizable.
Happy Holidays all.
treestar
(82,383 posts)It is the logical result of the Constitution, a non-parliamentary system. A big disadvantage is that it stops any change from happening unless a supermajority wants it. It took a Great Depression to create any safety net at all.
Whereas the Labor Party getting a majority means the PM will be from the Labor party. The Executive and Legislative branches are in sync. Our system allows complete independence of those two branches and either can stop the other. We got the ACA just barely and if we had not lost the supermajority, it would have included a public option.
There may be advantages to it vs. the parliamentary system, but right now I'm not sure of those. But this system does support the conservative, that is, no change.
Turbineguy
(37,206 posts)seems to be asserting themselves. "We're a lot like the Trumps, just without any class what so ever!"
Sarah Palin would therefore be qualified as a republican candidate.
yuiyoshida
(41,759 posts)none of this would have happened without Fox News.
whathehell
(28,968 posts)an 'anomaly,, no doubt...To "mira" and her ilk, Trump is "the rule", though clearly the reverse is more likely... Haters gonna hate.
FreeStateDemocrat
(2,654 posts)we foolishly think we still have a chance to recover. The puke takeover over and rule by one party edit over the last year, culminating with the huge wealth shift to the top 5%, ended our democratic experiment. It would take "blood on the asphalt" now and we don't have the gut to really resist.