I just called a driver in the dock next to me a fucking moron. Re: Tax Scam

[denbot]

About 10 minutes ago we were in the lumper’s (people who unload trucks) office, and I was calculating how losing the form 2106 trucker per diem will cost me for 2018. it came to $8,000+ more in taxes. I saw the result and said out loud “mother fucker”!

A guy sitting next to me laughed and said what’s wrong, so I told him, and he said, no, I must be a Democrat, cause that’s fake news. I responded he must be either an ignorant redneck, or a trucker with his own private jet.

I got my door assignment and bumped the dock. A few minutes later the same driver pulls into the dock to my right, and as soon as he sets his brake I showed him a confirming article on the trucker site Overdrive, hardly a liberal fake news site.

Instead of admitting that the deduction we both use was actually being taken away, his response was “Cry me a river”.

The stupid burns more then merely the stupid..

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. He'll cry soon enough when he has to figure his own taxes.

Whether he'll actually admit he'd been played is another question.

[uponit7771]

5. They are being told that it does not affect them and they believe it without questioning

[Virtual Burlesque]

42. And then he will be told it is Obama's fault --

And the "fucking moron" will believe that.

Why? See denbot's quote.

[aggiesal]

20. And he won't realize it until April 15, 2019. ...

After the 2018 election.

[yardwork]

23. That's the worst part. The dummies will think nothing happened when they file their 2017 taxes.

[Honeycombe8]

36. Yep. Plus, that kinda guy will not admit he was wrong. He'll be upset about it later. nt

[FiveGoodMen]

59. He will NEVER admit he was wrong

That's how these people become deplorables.

(It was a mistake for Hillary to call them that so publically, but it was surely true)

[LonePirate]

2. 45 could rob them blind and they would happily oblige. Their stupidity is destroying America.

[uponit7771]

3. Typical human response, driver is vested in being right & have to start questioning his own judgment

[Amaryllis]

28. I think it's more like literal brainwashing by Faux and Co.

[Ilsa]

4. It sounds like you'll have to incorporate to be able

to take the deduction. At least, that's what I've heard. Sounds like you need to talk to an accountant very soon. Or a lawyer.

I'm sorry that guy acted like a bag of dicks.

[denbot]

6. I operate under an LLC

Mostly to shield personal assets from my independent trucker status. BTW the IRS Form 2106 is the only way to deduct per diem, that form/deduction no longer exists, so there is no way to continue to deduct it.

[Ilsa]

9. You won't be able to deduct under the LLC?

I guess that is treated like sole proprietorship for taxes?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

10. Yes, it sounds like it might be advantageous for some to form an LLC

or an S corporation. But whether and how much it helps will be based on your bracket, and now those are new too. There will be lots of work for tax accountants this year.

[denbot]

12. The deduction has been eliminated.

It covers personal expenses, while away from home. With out the form 2106 personal expenses are not allowed to be deducted like operational expenses, i.e fuel, tools, boots, electronics, and other sundry operating expenses.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

13. That sucks. One of many things that suck, I guess.

[fescuerescue]

62. Have your LLC pay those expenses directly.

Instead of you paying them and then deducting them.

corporate operating expenses are still fully deductible, or open to depreciation costs.

Can you imagine the outcry from corporate America if they could no longer deduct normal operating expenses?

I operate out of LLC as well, and my major expense is travel expense. I've talked to my CPA and while I'm not sure yet about my overall tax savings/increase, expenses are not a concern.

I think you'll be ok, but you'll probably have to adjust how to handle those expenses.

[getagrip_already]

22. nope....

if you are talking about the pass through provision, it's only available to c-corops, not llc's or s-corps. I spoke to my acct about it today. No benefit even with a c-corp unless you fit a very narrow set of criteria.

llc's and s-corps are out in the cold. So much for helping mom and pop businesses.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

24. According to this, S corps and LLCs can use the pass-through.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/04/heres-how-to-become-a-pass-through-entity.html

Big businesses aren't the only ones who'll benefit from the tax overhaul. Small businesses — namely, pass-through entities such as S corporations and limited liability companies (LLCs) — get a break, too.

That's because under current law, profits from a small business "pass through" to the owner and is taxed at his or her individual rate, which can be as high as 39.6 percent. The Senate's bill will allow business owners to deduct 23 percent of their income, which will help them save on taxes.

[getagrip_already]

37. this stuff gives me a headache.. but..

That article was written 12/4, long before it passed out of conference committee. I can only go by what my accountant said today. Now he may not know either, but for now he is saying it's c-corp's only.

My situation has nothing to do with the corker exemption though; that does apply to llc's. But it is very narowly targeted.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

38. As of 3 hours ago it's still there.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/20/news/economy/republican-tax-reform-everything-you-need-to-know/index.html

30. Pass-through entities will also get a break.

The tax burden by owners, partners and shareholders of S-corporations, LLCs and partnerships -- who pay their share of the business' taxes through their individual tax returns -- has been lowered via a 20% deduction. The legislation includes a rule to ensure owners don't game the system, but tax experts remain concerned about abuse of this provision.

[elmac]

45. the bottom line on any tax cut from this bill is

blood money by killing off ACA the fascists are murdering over 10.000 Americans every year.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

46. Yes.

[getagrip_already]

58. Ok, I'm beginning to understand this now....

It involves employees versus owners. So lets say we have 2 business models: 1 is a contractor forming an llc/s-corp/c-corp and paid on a 1099 with moderate income, and the other is a real estate company that has owners and a small number of employees, but the income is large.

So in the first case (the contractor), the IRS will require the company to pay a reasonable wage to the employee - so if they bring in $200k, the company has to pay them something like $140k in regular w-2 salary (tech consultants don't come cheap) and the remainder is profit to the company. It's only that profit that is eligible for the reduced taxes, but there are other taxes that would need to be paid once that money is dispersed. In some cases, you can end up paying more on that "dividend" payment as salary as opposed to just taking the entire amount as your salary.

In the other case, the income is large (lets say $2M) but the wages are low (say $80k total for clerical staff). That leaves almost the entire $2M that can be taken by the owners. The owners don't get paid a salary, just the dividends, so they don't get a double whammy on the dividend dispersal. They end up saving big bucks.

Smart guys these tax cheats. They set it up so MOST small businesses (what you and I would call small, not mega farms or real estate trusts) can't take advantage of the rules without a lot of risk.

[aggiesal]

21. ... acted like a bag of dicks.

[Ilsa]

57. I'm surprised I got away with that. nt

[Ilsa]

7. The good news is that the

Fucking moron will have less money to contribute to the likes of trump. I bet he ignores all of the warnings.

[RhodeIslandOne]

8. As long as Trump throws out some Mexeeecans....

....idiots like this do not care.

[Takket]

11. to a deplorable, they would rather hurt themselves if they know a liberal is hurt too, than be

better off

[lunasun]

14. Yeah it's worth to him because Mexicans Muslims transgender Confederate flags and bump stocks

Undying love for trump. What screws him in the ass is a sacrifice he makes to save America
He is a hero . You must be a democrat was supposed to be an insult you know.

[Ferrets are Cool]

15. They are all fucking morons. nm

[SammyWinstonJack]

16. That was a defensive retort. You ruined his night with the proof you showed him.

It's probably ALL he'll able to think about now.

[VOX]

17. But...but...but we MUST win them over!

In a pig's eye, we must. They're too far gone, their brains are boiled mush from 30+ years of right-wing propaganda. Sorry to say this about fellow Americans, but they are the ENEMY. It's come to that.

They would be happier than pigs in shit to live in a fascist dictatorship. We Democrats/progressives are the genuine patriotic Americans, trying to keep the fucking country from going the way of 1930s Germany.

[dembotoz]

18. So the 2106 is gone?

Heard that wasn't sure
No longer applies to me..self employed

2106 saved my ass

[denbot]

19. Yup, its gone.

The 2106 deduction does not distinguish between employee, or independent drivers.

[A HERETIC I AM]

25. Ummmm.....got a link?

Evidence?

I can't find anything that indicates the elimination of the Per Diem deduction for drivers. I've been OTR for almost 30 years and have been using that deduction since the late 90's. A google search of any changes gives nothing.

[denbot]

26. Howdy-Ho A H I A

Here ya go;

https://www.overdriveonline.com/tax-bill-likely-sunsets-meal-per-diem-for-drivers-cuts-rates-across-the-board/

On Edit

BTW I have been in contact with my crongressman Ted Lieu, and as far as they know it’s out till at least the 2025 Tax year.

[A HERETIC I AM]

29. yes...I'm reading that article now....

Note the hedging language:

The tax reform bill likely to be signed into law by President Trump this week or next is expected to be the end of the daily $63 per diem deduction allotted to truck drivers for on-road meal expenses, says ATBS president and CEO Todd Amen. However, he and his firm are still reviewing the details of the bill, he says, and expect to be able to speak more authoritatively in the new year about the changes it institutes.

An article from "Landline" online dated today says differently:

As the Republican-led tax reform bill heads into its final vote, language within the bill has not made any changes to per diem rates for truck drivers. That means unless there is an 11th hour change to the bill, truckers will still get to claim 80 percent of their daily per diem.

The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, HR1, passed the Senate early Wednesday morning and later in the House of Representatives. It now heads to President Trump’s desk for a signature.

The bill language makes some changes to per diem rates – just not for truckers. Current law has a specific section for people who operate under hours of service. It states:

274(n)(3) Special rule for individuals subject to Federal hours of service
In the case of any expenses for food or beverages consumed while away from home (within the meaning of section 162(a)(2)) by an individual during, or incident to, the period of duty subject to the hours of service limitations of the Department of Transportation, paragraph (1) shall be applied by substituting “80 percent” for “50 percent”.

HR1 has makes some changes to Section 274. However, it does not make any changes to Section 274(n)(3). In fact, it remains silent on that section, essentially leaving the provision in place. That means truckers will retain the ability to claim 80 percent per diem for nights away from home – of course this is barring any last minute amendments in the House ahead of the final vote.

“It’s our interpretation that Congress did not repeal or amend the existing 80 percent per diem for truck drivers,” said Mike Matousek, OOIDA director of government affairs. “While it’s impossible to fully understand the impact this bill will have on an individual’s overall tax liability, we believe the per diem survived the legislative process.”

The transportation workers’ special standard per diem rate remained unchanged for 2018 at $63. Outside continental U.S is $68 per day, also unchanged. Truckers are allowed to declare 80 percent of that amount as a deduction at tax time.

http://www.landlinemag.com/Story.aspx?StoryID=71441#.WjsKyUtG3us


I'm going to go through the same processes for 2017 as I did last year. We shall see what happens for tax year 2018

[denbot]

30. Wont kick in till the 2018 filing

As of yesterday the language in the bill was that it was out till 2025 as per the D.C. staff of Congressman Ted Lieu’s office. The aid went over the verbiage regarding 2106. I call today but the D.C. office closed at 17:30est.

I left a message to confirm whether or not it made it back into the bill. His office is really good at replying, and when I get conformation I will PM you.

[A HERETIC I AM]

35. Fair enough

Last few years the total of complete days as well as leaving/returning has been over $12,000 for me.

This loss of deductability may be offset by the rise in the personal deduction if you are in the $6000 range, but I confess, I have been using Turbotax for quite a while now so it is sort of automatic for me.

[denbot]

40. I just found out I could deduct for 1/2 days, Dho!

I need to see the 2018 tax schedule vs actual earnings as a guide. As it now stands, I will have to cough up just over. $8,000 more by the end of the next tax year if I have the same income, at the same rate.

[A HERETIC I AM]

43. Wait....you didn't know you could deduct for the day you left and the day you returned?

If you spend a shitload of time away from the yard, it might not be a big deal, but if you're like me and have trips no longer than 5 days away....well....

It could be thousands over the last few years.

I would look into that if I were you and consider amended returns as far back as you legally can. You could be looking at a big check.

And I'm sure you know, your log books are legally admissible evidence

[denbot]

44. My trips average 7-9 days.

“your log books are legally admissible evidence”, I just installed a ezlogz gps sensor in my rig,
so not so much any more I kid, I kid.

While I’ve only driven for 5 years, amending my returns to reflect the days leaving and returning will be worth the time spent

[A HERETIC I AM]

56. I look at it this way;

How much per hour do I make driving?

How much per hour will I make sitting at my computer fucking with tax returns?

It's usually well worth it!

BTW, It seems as if it may be a bit of a teeth pulling exercise getting my daily 2017 logs from my company, as we went full-on electronic logs back in the spring.

"Oh, it's easy! Just use this log-on info and you can see them all, day by day"

Yeah? Then why doesn't the fucking website recognize the info you gave me? They'll have it sorted by the end of January or there will be a couple hundred irate drivers in my terminal alone that they'll have to deal with!

[Sneederbunk]

27. Not to worry. You can do it on a postcard.

[TeamPooka]

31. I'm sorry this hurts you. That sucks. The best thieves never need to wear a mask.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

32. Only in America

[Bernardo de La Paz]

33. Lyndon Baines Johnson

[oasis]

51. LBJ was 100% correct. True then, true now. nt

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

34. When that trucker

and lots of other people file after the first of the year, things will still be the same, so they'll say, "This new tax law isn't bad."

In 2019 when they file, the shit will hit the fan. And if Democrats have taken control of either the House or the Senate by then, they will blame the Democrats.

[cadaverdog]

47. And if in 2019 when we are running for control of all three branches of government, with promises to

repeal the Trump tax cuts, the Repubs will be able to argue that "the Democrats want to raise your taxes again!", and they will be right. An ugly dilemma.

[A HERETIC I AM]

39. For those of you that aren't familiar with what the OP is talking about....

Read IRS Pub 463, page 6, "Special rate for Transportation Workers"

Special rate for transportation workers.
You can use a special standard meal allowance
if you work in the transportation industry. You
are in the transportation industry if your work:
Directly involves moving people or goods
by airplane, barge, bus, ship, train, or
truck, and
Regularly requires you to travel away from
home and, during any single trip, usually
involves travel to areas eligible for different
standard meal allowance rates.
If this applies, you can claim a standard meal allowance of $63 a day ($68 for travel outside the
continental United States) for travel in 2016.
Using the special rate for transportation
workers eliminates the need for you to deter-
mine the standard meal allowance for every
area where you stop for sleep or rest. If you
choose to use the special rate for any trip, you
must use the special rate (and not use the regu-
lar standard meal allowance rates) for all trips
you take that year.
Travel for days you depart and return.
For both the day you depart for and the day you re-
turn from a business trip, you must prorate the
standard meal allowance (figure a reduced
amount for each day). You can do so by one of
two methods.
Method 1: You can claim 3/4 of the standard
meal allowance.
Method 2: You can prorate using any
method that you consistently apply and
that is in accordance with reasonable busi-
ness practice

It works out like this:

Let's say denbot and I work for the same firm out of terminals 1200 miles apart and have a "swap" that is a 2 day drive from our respective home terminals. He and I both leave on a Friday and meet in West Bumfuck on Sunday Morning, swap trailers and head home, getting back to our terminals on Tuesday. We both can deduct $47.25 (3/4 of $63) for Friday, $63 each day for Saturday Sunday and Monday and $47.25 for Tuesday.

All of this, after the adjusting for the allotted percentage (80% I believe) reduces our adjusted gross income. It means our refund is much larger than it otherwise would be.

[hibbing]

48. Thanks for this information n/t

[TomSlick]

41. Instead of replying to each individual reply above....

Guys like this can't admit that Trump lied to them - it's fake news.

My bet is that come April 15, he will come to the startling realization that he's been had. It is too easy to compare one year's tax bill and another. Wonder how pleased he will be with the Repugnants the next November?

[Amimnoch]

49. No, it won't kick in until he files in 2019..

After the mid-term elections. Many are going to make the same assumption that these changes will affect what they file this next return cycle, see no real change, and go "the Democrats were all up in arms about nothing, my filing is the same". It won't be until after the mid-terms before the dumb asses come to realize it.

[TomSlick]

50. Hmmm. Politically clever.

Objectively evil but clever. Of course, there will be a payday some day.

[Jspur]

52. He will still vote

for the republicans and just blame the Dems for the tax bill. These idiots are more than willing to go down with the ship. I don't see people like him ever voting Dem until they are literally homeless.

[TomSlick]

53. There ain't no cure for stupid.

[Sneederbunk]

54. I appreciate your Rex Tillerson's impression.

[tavernier]

55. You never know.

He wouldn’t admit it to you because of the fear of losing his testosterone, but once you’re out of his eyesight, he could very well start thinking about it, especially after the proof you presented, and he could go back for another look. Loss of money when it actually occurs personally, is a powerful way to make even the blindest see the light.

Keep on spreading the message. You may never get instant gratification, but you never know how it might play out in the end. Little by little, the truth will out.

[trof]

60. Lumper. I just learned a new word. Thanks.

[Kablooie]

61. I just found out the trucker per diem was not changed in the final tax bill.

They must have gotten nervous about upsetting teamsters too much and taken out the adjustment.

The applicable tax code is Section 274(n)(3).

There were changes in 274 by eliminating the entertainment deduction but Section 274(n)(3) was not changed.