"Businesses will use their tax cut to hire more workers..."

[kentuck]

...is highly unlikely.

It flies in the face of reality. Businesses are moving toward more robots and technology, not more workers. That is the reality. Less and less workers will be needed in our new labor force.

This is the reality our politicians need to come to grips with. Businesses are not going to hire more workers. Even coal mines have moved to new technology and no longer need the miners they once needed. It is prevalent across our entire economy.

So, when the Republicans insist that businesses will hire more workers with their tax cut, let us recognize it for the lie that it is.

[democratisphere]

1. Lie.

And outsourcing of American jobs to slave wage nations will continue.

[kentuck]

2. Yep.

Businesses will follow the cheapest labor.

[aggiesal]

33. It worse than you think ...

We already live with in-sourcing in the engineering fields with the H1-B visas, where
companies claim they can't find qualified U.S. engineers, so they get them from
other countries and pay them less.
Well the spouses of the H1-B engineer is not allowed to find employment while here.
The GOP is pushing to remove that, so that spouse can now go after the jobs that
are currently held by U.S. citizens.
More candidates drive down wages.

[IMnotU]

50. This tax bill will increase unemployment

Since businesses will use their new found money to buy robots, which when expensed over 5 years, are a lot cheaper than humans. Profits are the way management is judged and nothing is more profitable then replacing a man with a machine whose cost can be deducted 100% over 5 years.

[jimmil]

60. When I was someone....

We used to actually bring in buses of H1-B candidates for massive interviews. Our money cutoff was $40,000.00 a year for each engineer. After that it wasn't profitable having them gorilla code and have the experts fix their code.

[aggiesal]

65. And, where was that, if I could ask? n/t

[jimmil]

67. Telecom...

I am now just an old retired guy waiting to die...

[aggiesal]

68. I live in San Diego, ...

Qualcomm is a huge abuser of this policy, H1-B's everywhere.

I was hoping you'd name the company and location.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

3. Has any owner of any corporation come out and said this?

*crickets*

That's what I thought.

[uponit7771]

4. I've not heard one who says this

[unblock]

8. no because it's patently false. how does a tax on *profit* make an unprofitable decision profitable?

it doesn't.

if hiring someone doesn't make sense when taxes are 35%, they still don't make sense when taxes are 20%.


if hiring someone *does* make sense when taxes are 35%, then owners will salivate more when taxes are 20%, but it doesn't change the decision to hire or not.

in fact, it encourages the owner to try to profit as much as possible, e.g., by paying workers less.

[shanti]

14. Actually, at least one ceo

has come out and said the exact opposite

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

51. The Wells Fargo CEO said tax breaks will be used to pay dividends to shareholders and buy back stock

The House of Representatives is set to vote on the final version of the GOP tax bill Tuesday, with the Senate to follow close behind. Most Republican members of Congress are heralding the plan’s giant, permanent tax cut for corporations as the reason behind their support. The GOP argues that when corporations get a tax cut, they put that money toward creating more jobs and raising wages.

But history shows that just isn’t correct — and history may be about to repeat itself.

In an interview with CNN Money, Wells Fargo CEO Tim Sloan made it clear what he plans to do with the corporation’s tax windfall — and it doesn’t benefit the average American worker.

“Is it our goal to increase return to our shareholders and do we have an excess amount of capital? The answer to both is, yes,” Sloan told CNN Money. “So our expectation should be that we will continue to increase our dividend and our share buybacks next year and the year after that and the year after that.”

link

The pathetic response when Gary Cohn asked a group of CEOs how many were going to use the extra funds for capital investments is telling:

[shanti]

62. Yup, that's the one

I saw it on Reddit and couldn't remember the company.

[haele]

45. No corporations actually say this...but "industry lobbyists" say it all the time.

Along with "our industries can be trusted to self-regulate".

Pretending that a multi-national corporation has the same community interest as the local machining and small manufacturing shop does, and the national Chamber of Commerce leadership is really more interested in promoting small businesses and local employers in diverse communities than making money on their investments and travelling the convention circuit with other high-fliers.

Haele

[unblock]

5. in fact corporate tax cuts, if anything, discourage hiring.

corporate tax cuts encourage taking profit at a comparatively low tax rate, especially if companies can reasonably anticipate higher tax rates in the future (not unreasonable as it's easy to predict democrats regaining power in a few years and reversing these cuts).

corporations are encouraged to take profit, pay the low tax, and dividend the profits out to investors and/or buy back outstanding shares or stock. either way, they're not using the money to hire more people.


in fact, it's tax *increases* that encourage hiring. if a company wants to avoid *high* taxes, one of the best ways to do that is to reinvest profit in the business buy expanding, opening more branches, buying more equipment and hiring people to use it, etc.

businesses can hope to use their capital to generate profits in the future, when they can hope taxes will be lower.

[Wounded Bear]

6. Never worked before. Why would it work this time?

Hiring is demand driven, not supply driven. The money will go where it always goes, into buybacks and dividends.

Income inequality will increase. The apocalypse approaches.

[dalton99a]

7. Hire them to do what?

Seriously

[burnbaby]

9. I remember hearing that in the 70s

it is true, certain jobs do go away, but someone has to make the robots, program the robots, and support the robots and quite possibly use the robots to do their job.

Been in IT over 30 years, thanks to computers

[The_Casual_Observer]

53. The robots are made in Japan and elsewhere. Programming is done by contractors in many cases.

Robots run for years with little or no maintenance. Forget it.

[Farmer-Rick]

55. Exactly

Because almost all the manufacturers who sell their crap in US markets are hiring workers from foreign countries, we Americans think oh there are no jobs, all the jobs are being taken by robots, technology always forces out workers. But that's what they want you to think while destroying your standard of living and paying you crap.

Just look at the millions of migrant workers that come into the US. If technology is so great, why haven't these jobs gone away? These are the bottom of the bottom jobs, back breaking and difficult. The only agriculture jobs gone away are the grain harvest jobs. Those machines can only handle specific easy to gather grains. Even in more ancient times, there were machines that helped to gather grains.

All other agriculture is mostly done by hand. You would think we could have found a machine to do what over 3 million migrant workers get paid practically nothing to do. But no, we still bring in millions of people to do awful jobs so that some lazy farmer can make more money.

[n2doc]

10. CEOs agree: Corporate tax cuts won't trickle down

http://thehill.com/opinion/finance/362949-ceos-agree-corporate-tax-cuts-wont-trickle-down

[smirkymonkey]

52. +1000

[calimary]

61. There's a clip of that meeting described in this report. Room full of CEOs asked

specifically about it.

Companies including Cisco, Pfizer, Coca-Cola and Amgen have said that the gains from corporate tax cuts will go to shareholders.
When CEOs were asked at a Wall Street Journal event to raise their hands, “If the tax reform bill goes through, do you plan to increase investment — your company’s investment, capital investment,” few raised their hands.
White House National Economic Council Director Gary Cohn asked “Why aren’t the other hands up?” The hands weren’t up because the gains from corporate tax cuts will go to shareholders, not workers.

Here again, the Democrats are really missing the boat. AGAIN. There's a clip of this. It should be airing in campaign commercials from coast-to-coast. RIGHT NOW. In the biggest commercial ad buy they've made in a year. From the horses' mouths (and no raised hands).

[pwb]

11. Business owners will do what they have always done, keep it for themselves.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

12. That's not how it works!

If I own a business that makes widgets, I can sell as many widgets as demand exists for them. I employ enough people to make and market the widgets and manage the company's operations. If I get a tax cut I will not hire any more employees unless there is enough additional demand for my widgets to support the cost of those employees. Otherwise I will be paying employees to manufacture widgets I can't sell. So I will have to pay to warehouse my unsold widgets, or else I will have to cut their price in order to get rid of them, and this will hurt my business in the longer term. I could spend the extra money to upgrade my factory, but that doesn't create more jobs in my company (although it's temporary work for someone else's employees). And what good is an upgraded, more efficient factory if the demand for my product remains flat?

So, chances are that I won't spend my tax cut to add employees. I'll just keep it for myself.

[bucolic_frolic]

13. The trend is to load existing workers with work and technology to drive productivity

work too hard - get more work. Republicans call it a reward. Theirs. You produce more profit for them - get it?

No wonder people work for themselves with side gigs and home businesses.

Businesses use want ads as advertising. Same ads month by quarter by year. You must be totally specialized for each job, no area lacking, no unemployment, and not older than 30 or 40 on a good day.

We do not treat people as humans, or even as human capital. We treat them like cows on a treadmill.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

15. Also, mainly, businesses are limited by a lack of opportunities, NOT by lack of money.

Money is very cheap right now: interest rates are near historic lows.

Giving money to rich people does not stimulate the economy or create jobs. It stimulates real estate prices and art prices.

Giving money to small businesses, the poor, and the middle class does create jobs because they spend it. When they buy things, more things are made. When they take more vacations, more services are provided. With more money they eat out more.

What creates jobs is money in motion. Buying real estate and artwork is not money in motion: it is parking money.

[JimBeard]

57. Simply stated but 100% correct

[procon]

16. Its a scam. Workers still aren't getting higher wages so they can

afford to buy big ticket items or improve their living situation. Sure, maybe a family can go buy school clothes for their kids, treat them to a pizza/movie night, or go to the dentist. But they can't go to the bank and apply for a loan to buy a car or a house based on a pitiful, short term tax break. So there isn't going to be in big uptick in a demand for consumer goods that would trigger an increase in manufacturing to supply the market. Businesses aren't going to hire more workers unless the demand for their products exceeds the productivity of their current labor force and upgrades to automated systems... which means no new jobs. Period.

[Grammy23]

17. They are not talking about the reality of the American workplace.

Brick and mortar stores are struggling and going to online sales....for those that survive. More and more places are going to things like self check out. Ordering your meal via an iPad vs. a live waiter or waitress is happening. Things are changing in front of us. Yes, there is a need for people to build iPads and self run check out stands. However, many of those are in China, not here.

The Congress has access to all kinds of experts to inform them about things we have not even thought about. Instead, they are looking at how to keep the richest demographic RICH or even RICHER. We ordinary folk are screwed if we don’t have enough income to invest in real estate (beyond our humble home) or own stocks and bonds. We need a nice, fat portfolio that will take care of us in our old age. Goodness knows we’d better have that because Paul Ryan lives and breathes for the day he drives a stake in the hearts of Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid.

They must think we are stupid. We can read and understand the tea leaves. Things are changing and at a rapid pace. Every time we see our grandchildren (ages 19, 16 and 13) we talk to them about this. We try to encourage them to think outside of the box when it comes to employment. They probably get tired of us harping on it but we’re retired now. We have LOTS of time to read and understand that the world will be different for them as young adults than it was for us at 20 when we got married. I hope they are listening because the Republicans are selling them a pack of lies. A pig in a poke, to quote my late grandfather.

[DBoon]

18. Yes they will

They will hire more workers in India, Vietnam, Mexico and other low wage locations

They won't hire US citizens until our wages have been driven down to the same level as those countries'

[Blue_Adept]

19. The only response to someone saying that is "Bullshit"

Plain and simple.

Or "I've got a bridge deed to sell you."

[stopbush]

20. Less money in the hands of the middle class

plus more money in the hands of people who could right now be givng their workers that “never gonna happen” $4000 raise but aren’t equals less demand for goods and services because the middle class can’t afford them leads to firings and layoffs of existing workers equals fewer tax dollars collected from non-unemployed middle-class workers equals cuts in programs for middle-class people because the budget deficit is ballooning.

Do I have that MAGA philosophy correct?

[HughBeaumont]

21. Well, hey, let's ask one of the 2016 Presidential Candidates if they do -

OOooooooooooooops . . .

Take, for example, the cynically named Homeland Investment Act of 2004. The bill was passed as part of the equally cynically named American Jobs Creation Act of 2004 after intense lobbying with Hewlett-Packard in the forefront.

The purported aim of the legislation was to generate economic growth and therefore jobs at home by according corporations a one year “tax holiday” on billions in overseas profits they had stashed offshore.

The result was a $265 billion corporate giveaway.

(snip)

Instead, almost all of it was put into stock buybacks as a way of funneling cash to stockholders, these prominently including CEOs.

Never mind that the bill prohibited such buybacks.

And all that talk about putting more Americans to work did not stop the corporations from cutting as many as 100,000 American jobs in the name of even greater profits.

Hewlett-Packard saved more than $4.3 billion and put more than $4 billion into stock buybacks. It laid off 14,500 workers.

[gratuitous]

41. Well, no difference between the parties anyway

President Hillary Clinton would have signed this horrible legislation into law just like President Trump will, so the outcome is, like, totally the same.

But we know that businesses will be hiring more workers because Republicans voted down a Democratic proposal that would have required businesses to hire more workers with this windfall. See?

Fear not; if businesses don't hire more workers, the Republicans have a plan in place to blame the Democrats for that, so everything will be all right, and both sides.

[Alpeduez21]

22. UPS has placed an order

for 125 autodrive trucks from Tesla. 125 drivers not hired.

[FailureToCommunicate]

23. Corporations will use the windfall to buy up their own stock and enrich the

few big player shareholders at the top.

The ONLY way this might "trickle down" is if some CEO's wife donates moth-eaten fur coats to Goodwill.

[KPN]

25. Exactly.

[geardaddy]

24. K & R

[Proud Liberal Dem]

26. said no corporation ever.........

[CanonRay]

27. They are already planning their stock buybacks.

[RKP5637]

28. Businesses are in business to make more money, NOT hire more workers!!! n/t

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

31. The only reason they would ever hire more workers

is if they actually needed them to support their business, meaning that there would have to be more demand for their product/service and they can't meet that demand by getting more work out of their existing employees or replacing them with robots. If demand doesn't support more hiring, the business will pay dividends to shareholders, do stock buybacks, and/or pay their executives more.

[RKP5637]

36. Yep, exactly what happened in the major corps. I worked in. The emphasis was on employee

productivity, reducing headcount and automation. The was nothing altruistic in their hiring practices.

[Eyeball_Kid]

29. "So, when the Republicans insist that businesses...

will hire more workers with their tax cut, let us recognize it for the lie that it is."

No one said that "workers" would be human.

[Kablooie]

30. "Workers" is defined as "shareholders" so they are right.

[Atman]

32. Businesses hire because of demand

Not because they get some free money. They're not going to make a million more widgets if there is no market for them.

[Yonnie3]

34. We won't be hiring.

Our work is very variable and we only hire subcontractors for the jobs we have. We don't expect an increase in demand. Some of our customers are in the top 10%, but they already are booking us.

If this very small business sees a tax decrease, it will go to pay down business debt. Tiny businesses don't get good interest rates on debt.

[DrDan]

35. I never could buy this spin

Higher salaries reduce profits which in turn reduces the tax burden. If a business does not do this while making a pile of money and tax rates are high, why would they when tax rates are reduced?

It just does not compute to me.

[Gothmog]

37. This is a lie

[RKP5637]

38. Decades ago employees were a companies greatest asset they said. Now, employees are generally

a companies greatest liability, they say. I've known a fair number of wealthy people. If they had more cash in their pocket, they kept it!

[Sophia4]

39. So true. The tax cut will be used to increase profits and decrease

costs -- and the costs that are decreased will include labor costs, humans.

That's the whole point of the tax cut.
Meanwhile they will also reduce all the programs that help the poor including the elderly and ill.

It's anything BUT Christian.

The Republicans are killing the goose that laid the golden egg. Just wait. It will get a lot worse before it gets better.

[rock]

40. "Businesses will use their tax cut to hire more workers..."

Ask yourself, "To do what?" Senseless, isn't it?

[DinahMoeHum]

42. Re the quote: Bull. Shit.

n/t

[TexasBushwhacker]

43. "This is the reality our politicians need to come to grips with. "

You are assuming politicians believe their own lies. I think they fully aware that trickle down economics doesn't work. They just don't care. Unfortunately, when uber wealthy individuals and corporations hoard their wealth, it drags the overall economy down. Not only are the poor and middle class not going to do better, they're going to do worse!

[SCantiGOP]

44. Most of the money will go to stockholders

And a good portion of those folks like in other countries.
This tax cut can be a very good thing for millionaires in China and Saudi Arabia.

[Ferrets are Cool]

46. It's not highly unlikely, its NOT GONNA HAPPEN. History tells us

that the only trickle down we get is yellow in color.

[NRaleighLiberal]

47. Ha! I worked in Big Pharma for 25 years - got to observe how they did things.

Whatever republicans promise from this heinous act, the opposite will occur.

I am so glad I am out - that's all I will say.

[christx30]

48. It didn't happen last time.

After Bush's tax cut, Does the phrase "jobless recovery" ring a bell?
Ryan would be better suited working at a fertilizer plant.

[Ilsa]

49. No. They'll use it to pay off debt and buy back stock.

They've pretty much said that they have no intention of expanding and hiring.

[Freethinker65]

54. Not if there is no middle class to drive the economy

I, for one, will try my best to avoid buying useless corporate crap. I need to save up to try to have enough to move out of the country. My less than 1% tax cut will be overshadowed by the decrease in my home’s value (estimated to be over 10%).

Perhaps I can even fight for one of those minimum wage no benefit service jobs that will become even more common in our race to the bottom.

[Locrian]

56. absolutely bald face LIE

No business hires unless there is demand. It's an insane argument that a business will magically decide (against all principle) to to "give" money away.

But it's even worse - they DON'T hire when they need more. They're moving into the "growth" phase where they *project* growth to drive up stock price (buying back stock as well). But do DO NOTHING (hiring-wise except as an illusion) except betting and buying other companies who they then "cost cut" by laying off or outsourcing, or (mainly) dumping on someone ELSE after the stock goes up.

It's a full on looting of the entire productive arena by people who produce NOTHING except a stock price based on thin air projections.

It's like a family where everyone works hard except uncle Eddie the drunk-pervert-gambler: he's got access to the whole families' money and is in Vegas on a bender.

We are in for a MASSIVE crash - and I have no idea what the ashes will look like.

[NastyRiffraff]

58. They're not even pretending anymore

that most middle class will get tax cuts. Now it's "just wait until all that trickle down happens and you too will be RICH!"

Reality: Trickle down never happened. They promised it in the Reagan administration and again in the W Bush administration. It's always Gushing Up, not Trickle Down.

[wildflowergardener]

59. Not possible

We’d like to hire more people - not to do with the tax bill at all but we can’t find people in the landscape industry and it’s getting harder and harder to get the H2b workers that make up the difference in who we need and are able to hire. Of course it’s getting harder and harder under trump because of his anti foreigner beliefs. Just giving tax breaks isn’t going to make more workers Magically appear. I’m not sure if this view will be popular here but it’s how things are right now for the business I work for. I also highly doubt large corporations will be doing more hiring. If the majority of Americans have less money to spend they won’t be buying so no need to hire workers. I believe the wealthier people tend more to hold onto their money vs spending it to improve the economy.

[2naSalit]

63. B.F.S.!!!!

[ecstatic]

64. Businesses won't do ANYTHING with the tax cut because anyone

with a shred of common sense will understand that, based on the way it was forced through without bipartisan or public support, it's temporary. It will be undone soon. So businesses will sit on it and at most, use it to show more profits.

[bdamomma]

66. what total BS

that is. Is it pitchforks and torches time?????