In my opinion the Democratic party is facing a big test in the next couple of days

[Egnever]

Last edited Wed Dec 20, 2017, 08:43 AM - Edit history (1)

If they don't stand up for the dreamers and the CHIP program in the next few days and shut the government down if it doesn't happen we are doomed.

It is time to fight. If they can't show a spine after this tax disaster people will lose hope.

This should be a no brainer IMHO.


Edit to update


Looks like the republicans are going to try to push this fight to January.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2017/12/20/republicans-plan-to-delay-vote-on-spending-bill.html

The House had been expected to make the first move Wednesday and vote on a spending bill that funds the military through next September but keeps the rest of the government running only through Jan. 19.

But GOP aides said Tuesday evening that they no longer expected Republican leaders to bring up that bill Wednesday, as it became evident there weren't enough votes to pass it.

It wasn't yet clear what spending bill the House would consider Thursday, as Congress edged closer a government shutdown.

As the deadline drew closer, it appeared likely that many of the thorniest issues, including the fate of young, undocumented immigrants, would be pushed into January.

[wasupaloopa]

1. Shutting the government down is worse

Dems cannot put a bill on the floor. Playing tea party games is stupid.

We need to pull together and vote like there is no tomorrow when the time comes.

[Egnever]

3. Dems can not put a bill on the floor now.

This is the only leverage they have till 2018, unless you count the debt ceiling vote that is coming. Shutting down the government is bad but defaulting on the debt is far worse.

This is something that needs to be done. If CHIP goes unfunded children will die because of it and hundreds of dreamers who have never seen the countries their parents are from will be deported.

This is not playing games this is standing up for what is right and it is the only chance they will get.

[SoCalMusicLover]

2. Forget About Dreamers & CHIP

The Democrats are not going to shut the government down. Only repubs would have enough guts to do something like that.

[Egnever]

4. I fear you are right

But hope you are wrong.

[Demsrule86]

11. I fear I may throw up. I must be coming down with something...it feels like ground

hog day...the blame the Dem meme if the Chip program and the Dreamers are not saved...of course the GOP has the presidency, the House and the Senate, but the Democrats have magical powers if only they tried (sarcasm)...everything that ever happens is always the Democrats fault...why they should er fight harder (more sarcasm)...not sure how since they were stripped of power in 16 by those who refused to vote for the Democratic nominee but hey maybe they should yell and scream and jump up and down or something .I keep hearing a phrase in my head...elections have consequences. You break it and you own it..those who refused to vote for the Democratic Party and liberals like Feingold I might add broke it...here come the consequences.

[burnbaby]

37. Dreamers are safe

until march with a possible extension. I don't know much about the Chip program

[Demsrule86]

38. Chip kids will begin dying with in weeks...many can not get other insurance and

have serious life threatening illnesses...Hillary Clinton got this through after the Clinton single payer bill failed.

[burnbaby]

40. wow

I did not know this. How terrible to think they would be cut off

[Demsrule86]

43. It is terrible...and since Hillary began this program, I am not sure we can save it...the animus

towards her on the GOP side is enormous...and they care nothing for dead kids.

[eShirl]

23. you're confusing guts with corruption

[Demsrule86]

39. Are you saying Democrats are corrupt?

[Wellstone ruled]

5. The Rethugs got their Tax the Working Poor Bill

and everything else will be crap. They could care less if the Government shuts or a Budget gets done. Rest assure,there will be massive cuts in the Budget Bill that will steal from Medicare and Medicaid as well as caps on Nutrient Programs as a Starter for to do offsets to loss of Tax Revenues. Hatch stated in a SLCTribe story last week,there is no money for CHIP programs due to Tax Bill Cuts .

And the Rethugs are hinting they will pass a Budget without the Dems. After all,this is the Republican Party's last stand and they are about to take care of those who donated and screw the rest.

[nolabels]

8. In 1929 they did not know what was coming

The Reagan tax cuts and the fiasco afterword got managed somehow. The collapse after *Bush kinda got managed with bookkeeping sleight of hand. After the next (and coming soon) it will get ugly.
This second republican great depression should just about finish off any idea of the thing once known as the Republican party.

Most of us learn the lessons we were taught in school but the fools that passed this tax cut collapse plan will finally have to learn theirs

[marylandblue]

6. The budget bill funds domestic spending for a month

But military for a full year. Democrats already said no to it. So either the current bill will be pulled or there will be a shutdown. If the bill is pulled there is no time for another, so it will be another CR anyway.

[Tarheel_Dem]

7. More keyboard activism from the armchair pundits. You know who gets blamed if there's a gov't....

shutdown? You know what happens to that double digit generic ballot advantage? Trump & Co would like nothing better, because it takes the focus off of them.

You're right. It takes "no brain" to come up with a solution like this. If you "lose hope" because Democrats fail to shut down the federal government, then me & thousands of federal workers won't really give a damn.

There's an ugly rash of Dem bashing going on here tonight, and I think it's designed to be dispiriting at a time when Democrats should be uniting and rallying around our Democratic party.

[chowder66]

10. This! nt

[susanna]

13. Thank you. Someone gets it. n/t

[Egnever]

18. You think I came up with this?

The Dems are already pushing this. Or at the least grumbling about it. This is not my idea. They need to follow through.

Guess they are stupid with no brain...

GOP leaders hope to hold tax votes early in the week before moving to the budget bill. They need Democrats’ help to pass the budget measure through the Senate, and thus far they have made little progress bringing them aboard amid disagreements over spending levels, protection from deportation for certain undocumented immigrants and a federal health insurance program for low-income children.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/gop-faces-5-day-scramble-to-pass-tax-bill-avoid-government-shutdown/2017/12/17/e3292264-e363-11e7-833f-155031558ff4_story.html?utm_term=.e827111b1e46

[Tarheel_Dem]

19. The Dems will NOT shut down the federal government. So make friends with your "hopelessness".

[Egnever]

21. Guess we will see.

My bet is the Republicans will blink.

[Demsrule86]

9. They already did...and the Dems have very limited power...instead of 'tests' for Democrats

perhaps we would not be here today if some (not you I am talking about) had shown party loyalty in 16...may I suggest future 'tests' be reserved for Republicans. Some (not you I am talking about) stabbed the Democratic Party in the back and would like to blame Democrats for all the shit that Trump has done and will do on Democrats when really they need to look in the mirror to find the person who deserves blame...along with the Russian Princess Jill Stein, Nina Turner, Susan Sarandon...etc. etc. etc.

[Egnever]

12. Well heres the thing

I think at the moment Democrats have huge Mojo going into 2018 the public is ready and waiting to vote for them. Now is the time to show them what they will fight for.

The Dreamers and CHIP are a hill worth dying on. They have the opportunity right now to make it happen. The people are behind them, Trump is at 35% for months now. 9 million kids get health insurance under CHIP. 800k Dreamers most of them young people that know no country but america

They have the opportunity right now to make it happen. The people are behind them, Trump is at 35% for months now and republicans aren't really against it.

If not now when?

[Demsrule86]

14. Fight how exactly? Stop blaming Democrats...prepare to vote the GOP bastards out.

[Egnever]

17. The budget bill requires democrats votes to pass and is must pass legislation.

It has been being discussed for weeks now.

GOP leaders hope to hold tax votes early in the week before moving to the budget bill. They need Democrats’ help to pass the budget measure through the Senate, and thus far they have made little progress bringing them aboard amid disagreements over spending levels, protection from deportation for certain undocumented immigrants and a federal health insurance program for low-income children.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/gop-faces-5-day-scramble-to-pass-tax-bill-avoid-government-shutdown/2017/12/17/e3292264-e363-11e7-833f-155031558ff4_story.html?utm_term=.e827111b1e46

[Tarheel_Dem]

15. And yet your suggestion is for them to flush all that "mojo" down the toilet with a gov't shutdown?

We've seen this movie. It was a flop.

[Egnever]

16. If not now when?

Again a hill worth dying for and I think the public will agree.Not to mention the only leverage they have till November soonest. The last time we saw it the republicans lost the argument. They will lose it this time as well.

Just how much shit do we have to put up with before we start fighting back?

[Tarheel_Dem]

20. I know your type. It's become a familiar refrain with the "burn it all down" brigade. Steve Bannon

is of that ilk, except he's on the right. The people who keep voting for Jill Stein, and complaining about how "feckless" and "spineless" the Democrats are, are of that same ilk, but claim to be on the left. Like I said, we've seen the movie...it was a flop.

[Egnever]

22. Bzzt

Try again.

[JCinNYC]

24. No I dont think Tarheel needs to

try again

More like Bulls-eye

[onenote]

26. so you think it's worth giving up the possibility of taking back Congress in 2018

to shut down the government, which by the way, won't guarantee that the republicans will blink and address CHIP and DACA. That's a big risk. What happens if the repubs stay dug in, saying they're prepared to deal with those issues but not as part of the budget bill. What happens if the public buys that message and believes that the Democrats are needlessly making the whole country suffer through a prolonged shutdown?

"Dying on the hill" means you're prepared for us to suffer the worst consequences and possibly not obtain our objective anyway. Kind of bad strategy if you ask me.

[Egnever]

27. I find the idea of standing up for dreamers and CHIP as being a detriment to us in 2018

Laughable.

The vast majority of the country supports both. What upside down world are we in where fighting for what the vast majority of people in the country want could lose an election.

[onenote]

33. how does the vast majority feel about government shutdown?

[avebury]

31. What I am looking for is that the Democrats at least fight back.

They need to develop an actual war room and pick a consigliere. They need people whose sole job is to dig out every last bit of dirt on the Republicans: 1. Proof of which Republicans accepted money from Russian/Ukraine Oligarchs friends of Putin; 2. Republican Congressional members contacts with Russia; 3. Which Republican members of Congress will benefit and by how much from this tax bill; 4. Factual results of previous Republican "tax bills" and show how actual results compare to Republican claims.; 5. They to be constantly talking about the horrendous consequences of the Republican programs.

They need to be developing numerous short political videos what pop right out and grab people's attention on what is going on and how it will negatively impact the lives of the people of this country.

Democrats need to be able to make a valid claim, with supporting information, that Republicans pose a clear and present danger to this Country.

At this moment, they don't have the votes to impact much in Congress that is an unfortunate fact. What I expect is that they think outside the box and find a constructive way to fight back.

[Demsrule86]

34. How? give me a method...they can't run the investigations already underway.

I was going to give you a point by point answer... but really what you want is not possible when you are in the minority and run nothing in either branch of Congress. You are unreasonable in my opinion. None of what you suggest is possible. And when was the last time you send a donation to the Democratic party? The big donors were driven out during Pres. Obama's time in office and the small donors never stepped up. If we take the House, and please God the Senate, some of what you want can be done. But here is the thing...you don't vote for Democrats you get Republicans period end of story and running down Democrats and the Party leads people not to vote for our side...is this what you want?

[avebury]

36. If the Democratic Party is not willing to dig in and fight then they

will not get any money for me. I want my money to go to individual candidates that show a willingness to fight to get elected and will say what needs to be said. It is time that the Democrats stop acting like nice little gentlemen and gentlewomen and start fighting back. As the saying goes, nice guys finish last.

[Demsrule86]

41. Bingo...have a nice day. Nice to know where you stand...see I support Democrats

completely period.

[avebury]

44. Do you know realize that fact that, when one tactic does not work,

you need to find a better plan. Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Blindly following Hitler resulted in WWII and millions killed in concentration camps. If we want to keep this country from going down the same path then we need to be willing to fight back. That takes a plan that can actually be implemented.

Your response - "see I support Democrats completely period." It is nice to provide unwavering support to Democrats but that is not a plan. What is your plan? Support does not make for an actual action plan.

Exactly why is it wrong for people to expect an action plan? Talk is cheap, people are ready for a real, executable action plan.

[CentralMass]

25. Well hey at least they were able to get rid of Al Franken.

[GulfCoast66]

28. So you want us to become what we hate?

The republicans don’t give s shit about a government shutdown. That’s their goal.

Leave it to DU to find a way to blame the Democratic Party for republican evil. America is getting what it apparently wants.

Hopefully next fall they will change their mind.

[avebury]

29. The Democrats need to go non-stop, major league, hard core

on the Republicans. They need to find out every last piece of dirt to show who has been bribing whom and how much money that is paid out. They need to show exactly what the financial benefits that Republicans gave themselves with the tax vote. They need to put faces on people that the Republicans have knifed with their bill. They need to put together the hard core facts on previous Republican "tax bills" and the actual results versus Republican claims and they need to be putting that out everywhere. They need a solid game plan, take a united front and refuse to let anybody, MSM included, divert them from their plan.

I don't know why they are not shouting from the rooftops which Republicans have taken money from Russian oligarch allies of Putin. If they can find proof that Republicans have taken those payoffs they need to be demanding investigations of those Republicans and tie them tightly to Trump. They need their version of a consigliere to run their war room because they should be at war with the Republicans. When you don't control Congress and you are not in a position to be able to actually have a chance to introduce and pass legislation then you have to think outside the box to work to flip the narrative. The fight should be why the Republicans represent a clear and present danger to this country. Trump's base is only about 30% which leaves you with 70% to fight for and turn against the Republicans. The goal should be winning over the masses and get them to vote consistently.

[Vinca]

30. IMO, shutting down the government would be the wrong move.

It's handing ammunition to the GOP for 2018. We're pretty much in "save the country" mode at this point. Not winning back Congress isn't an option. That said, it wouldn't be a bad thing to run nonstop ads, demonstrate, call, write, etc. Maybe it's time for a multimillion person march in Washington.

[renegade000]

32. If you are treating politics as a spectator sport...

You're doing it wrong. I don't give a hoot what the Dem leadership "ought" to be doing. I'm focused on what I can be doing to make the GOP pay in the next election.

[Justice]

35. +1000000

[Demsrule86]

42. That is exactly right...some sit on their comfy chairs with their fingers flying over the keyboard

expecting others to do the heavy lifting while they provide constant critique of those actions...the provide neither money nor time to the only party that can stop Trump and the Republicans...the Democratic Party. I am a proud member...yellow dog Dem...I would vote for a yellow dog before a Republican.