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Why did Chris Hayes say alleged crime while talking about (Original Post) malaise Apr 19 OP
maybe because that motherfucker Trump was never convicted in a criminal court over it Celerity Apr 19 #1
GOOD question, and no good reason, elleng Apr 19 #2
Good reason. See #3. Ocelot II Apr 19 #4
He was never *convicted* of a crime - the Carroll case was civil, not criminal. Ocelot II Apr 19 #3
Thanks elleng Apr 19 #5
But the judge said it was rape malaise Apr 19 #6
Defamation (alleged by Trump against E. Jean Carroll) requires Trump to prove Carroll made a false statement. Ms. Toad Apr 19 #7
Thanks malaise Apr 19 #8
The New York statute that defines rape Ocelot II Apr 19 #9
Thanks malaise Apr 19 #10

Ocelot II

(115,829 posts)
3. He was never *convicted* of a crime - the Carroll case was civil, not criminal.
Fri Apr 19, 2024, 09:15 PM
Apr 19

He was found liable for the tort of sexual assault but not guilty of the crime. Big difference.

Ms. Toad

(34,086 posts)
7. Defamation (alleged by Trump against E. Jean Carroll) requires Trump to prove Carroll made a false statement.
Fri Apr 19, 2024, 09:36 PM
Apr 19

Trump was found liable for sexual assault but not for rape, because the crime of rape required penile penetration and E. Jean Carroll could not say, with certainty, what he penetrated her with.

The judge said that while the jury found him not liable for rape because Carroll couldn't prove he committed penile penetration, the common understanding of the term rape (not the criminal one) included the offense the jury found him liable for - so Carroll's statement was substantially true (and therefore not defamation).

Ocelot II

(115,829 posts)
9. The New York statute that defines rape
Fri Apr 19, 2024, 09:44 PM
Apr 19

requires penetration with a penis; any other kind of penetration is defined as sexual assault. Since Carroll wasn't sure what he penetrated her with, the jury found him civilly liable (but not criminally guilty because it was a civil case), of sexual assault, not rape. But the judge later said that the common understanding of what constitutes rape includes all kinds of penetration:

A judge has now clarified that this is basically a legal distinction without a real-world difference. He says that what the jury found Trump did was in fact rape, as commonly understood.

The filing from Judge Lewis A. Kaplan came as Trump’s attorneys have sought a new trial and have argued that the jury’s $5 million verdict against Trump in the civil suit was excessive. The reason, they argue, is that sexual abuse could be as limited as the “groping” of a victim’s breasts.

Kaplan roundly rejected Trump’s motion Tuesday, calling that argument “entirely unpersuasive.”

“The finding that Ms. Carroll failed to prove that she was ‘raped’ within the meaning of the New York Penal Law does not mean that she failed to prove that Mr. Trump ‘raped’ her as many people commonly understand the word ‘rape,’ ” Kaplan wrote. He added: “Indeed, as the evidence at trial recounted below makes clear, the jury found that Mr. Trump in fact did exactly that.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/19/trump-carroll-judge-rape/
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